Which powder meters better, 700x or Red Dot?

[John C]

I normally load my pistol rounds with Bullseye or Clays. Both meter very well. With the current shortages, my Clays is entirely gone, and my Bullseye dwindling rapidly, and no replacements are likely to be found soon.

Looking around, about the only fast pistol powders I can find anywhere, at any price, are 700x and Red Dot. They appear to be very similar powders, so for me it comes down to which one meters better?

Thanks,

-John

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I normally load my pistol rounds with Bullseye or Clays. Both meter very well. With the current shortages, my Clays is entirely gone, and my Bullseye dwindling rapidly, and no replacements are likely to be found soon.

Looking around, about the only fast pistol powders I can find anywhere, at any price, are 700x and Red Dot. They appear to be very similar powders, so for me it comes down to which one meters better?

Thanks,

-John

In reality both are shotgun powders that are used for handgun loading too.

It's been my experience Red Dot will meter better than 700X.

You might look into finding W231/HP-38 if you're looking for a good metering powder. Since they are ball powders they meter like water. I think you will also like Ramshot Zip as well. The fastest ball powder would probably be AA#2 if you can find that powder.

 

[John C]

Archangel;

Yes, 231, AA#2, or Zip would be at the top of my list, if any were to be found. Desperate times require desperate measures, and Red Dot and 700x are the only fast pistol powders I can find. There are many other fast shotgun powders available, like AA lite or International Clays, that don't have pistol data available.

Thank you for your insight that Red Dot meters better than 700x. I have two mostly full 8 oz cans of 800x that different people have given me, because it meters so poorly. I would prefer to avoid that, if I'm actually paying money for the powder! Free, I'll take it!

Thanks,

-John

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Yes sir, free is never a bad thing!

 

[Walkalong]

The good news is they shoot better than they meter.

 

[sexybeast]

I won't buy either again. There is alot of titegroup out there and measures better than either by far.
Which one meters better? I'd say 700x but not by much. I would never use either for 9mm.

 

[John C]

Sexybeast;

Where are you finding titegroup? I'd love to find/get better pistol powders than red dot and 700x. Looking around, they're all I could find. Tell me where, and I'll upgrade.

I'm asking this question because I'm about to make an online order.

Thanks,

-John

 

[Potatohead]

i think you will also like ramshot zip

+1







.

 

[Potatohead]

There is alot of titegroup out there

Not out here

 

[sexybeast]

Where are you finding titegroup? I'd love to find/get better pistol powders than red dot and 700x. Looking around, they're all I could find. Tell me where, and I'll upgrade.

I'm asking this question because I'm about to make an online order.

Everyone including myself has been able to find titegroup either local or online. It seems to be one of the first placed on the shelf locally at one of the big chains [sportsmans warehouse] or a mom and pop. A friend recently got 25 1lb cans from powder valley [I bought four of them from him].
I guess I should have phrased it that was one of the most likley for you to find. Online it seems to come in more often especially compared to Universal or Clays.
Some of my 'techie" friends have programs/bots that alert them when something is in stock so he knows what seems to come in most often.

 

[cfullgraf]

Some of my 'techie" friends have programs/bots that alert them when something is in stock so he knows what seems to come in most often.

And folks are upset at the hoarders and scalpers waiting in line at Wally World.

I do not have any trouble getting 700-x to meter consistency. It takes a good powder measure and consistent operation.

I have been using 700-X in 45 ACP since 1980. I guess I kind of like it.

 

[243winxb]

700X and it will be more accurate in 38 & 45 acp.

 

[Schwing]

I have two mostly full 8 oz cans of 800x that different people have given me, because it meters so poorly.

I absolutely love 800x for .357 with my 158 Grain Lead SWCs. I ended up with about 8 lbs of it too and couldn't get it to meter well at all.

At first, I found that charges under about 5 grains would give me variances up up to 1 grain and anything higher was still +- about .5 grains.

It was someone here on THR that queued me on to this and I am sorry that I can't remember who it was. They suggested that their best .357 loads were with 7.5 grains of 800x. I knew I had a +- .5 grain variance so I tested some loads at 7.0 grains and some at 8.0 grains and was very pleased with both. I set my powder measure at 7.5 and just accept that they will be between 7-8 grains. My Chronograph can tell about a 60fps extreme spread but the holes in the target can't tell the difference.

 

[HankB]

I've found that 700-X meters well in both my Dillon SDB and my RCBS Uniflo II. It's my "standard" powder for .45 ACP and 9mm P loads that duplicate ordinary ball ammo. (It's not optimum for "+P" loads in either cartridge.)

I started using it when it was sold in 12 lb kegs and I was doing a lot of trap and skeet shooting, and I was reloading a LOT of 12 ga shotshells. Buying it that way it was pretty cheap, and seeing it was listed for several pistol rounds, I gave it a try - and I'm glad I did. Works well in .38 Sp and .32 ACP also.

It more or less fills the same notch as Bullseye - but don't interchange data!

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I'm sorry and I guess it's just me but I see no reason to use 800X or 700X which are old shotgun powders left over from a long gone powder company. There are just too many better choices available today. By my last count between Hodgdon/IMR/Winchester, Alliant, Accurate and Ramshot there are 45 or 46 powders available to us by my count. That's not even counting VV and Norma powders...

BTW, 700X, 800X, Trail Boss and PB have been moved over to the Hodgdon line and removed from the IMR catalog.

 

[TfflHndn]

In my experience, neither 700-x nor Red Dot meter well enough for me to use my powder drop. I hand-measure both using a scoop. I am almost out of 700-x, and I will not buy it again. I like Red Dot better in both performance and measuring.

 

[John C]

I absolutely love 800x for .357 with my 158 Grain Lead SWCs. I ended up with about 8 lbs of it too and couldn't get it to meter well at all.

At first, I found that charges under about 5 grains would give me variances up up to 1 grain and anything higher was still +- about .5 grains.

It was someone here on THR that queued me on to this and I am sorry that I can't remember who it was. They suggested that their best .357 loads were with 7.5 grains of 800x. I knew I had a +- .5 grain variance so I tested some loads at 7.0 grains and some at 8.0 grains and was very pleased with both. I set my powder measure at 7.5 and just accept that they will be between 7-8 grains. My Chronograph can tell about a 60fps extreme spread but the holes in the target can't tell the difference.

Schwing;

Thanks for the load data on 800x in .357. I'm about to start loading it, and was looking for a starting point. I really appreciate it!

I've heard that guys are using fish tank aerators taped to their powder measures as vibrators to settle the powder between throws. Supposedly this creates more consistent throws with large flake powder, like 800x and Unique. I just bought one at Walmart for less than $10. I'm going to try it with my Dillon measure.

-John

 

[cfullgraf]

I've heard that guys are using fish tank aerators taped to their powder measures as vibrators to settle the powder between throws.

Yes, some folks have good success with the aerators.

I try to minimize vibrations when operating my powder measures. As part of this, the powder measure I am using at the moment is mounted to a free standing floor stand so that reloading bench vibrations do not get transferred to the measure.

On the progressive presses, I try to operate the press at the same speed every stroke so that the vibrations put through the powder measure are consistent.

As I have said, I have good consistent powder throws with flake powders like 700-X and Unique.

In my opinion the key to consistent powder charges is doing it the same way every time.

But, I also feel that certain powder measures meter flake powders better than others and fine grain powders are more forgiving in a broader range of powder measures.

 

[John C]

I try to minimize vibrations when operating my powder measures. As part of this, the powder measure I am using at the moment is mounted to a free standing floor stand so that reloading bench vibrations do not get transferred to the measure.

On the progressive presses, I try to operate the press at the same speed every stroke so that the vibrations put through the powder measure are consistent.

As I have said, I have good consistent powder throws with flake powders like 700-X and Unique.

In my opinion the key to consistent powder charges is doing it the same way every time.

But, I also feel that certain powder measures meter flake powders better than others and fine grain powders are more forgiving in a broader range of powder measures.

Chuck;

I'll try it both ways, with an aerator and completely isolated from vibration and see which one gives me the best results.

I'm also interested to hear which powder measures give you the best results with coarse flake powders.

Thanks,

-John

 

[cfullgraf]

I'm also interested to hear which powder measures give you the best results with coarse flake powders.

John,

I started reloading using an RCBS Little Dandy powder measure. It works great but the fixed cavity rotors get expensive and they are not very flexible. I frequently found I wanted a powder charge that fell between two rotor sizes. I bought my rotors when they were $1.98, I believe they are in the $5-$6 range these days.

For pistol charges, I use a Redding 10-X. I have excellent results with it and the micrometer adjuster makes it easy to return to a setting, or make adjustments when dialing in a particular powder charge. I like the 10-X so well that I modified one for use on both my Hornady L-N-L and RCBS Pro2000 progressive presses.

I like a micrometer adjuster on my powder measures. It does not make the measure throw any more consistently, but it does make adjustments easier and quicker. Also, I like to have a baffle in the reservoir of my powder measures. I make sure the holes in the baffle do not directly line up with the cavity in the metering drum. Many folks have good success without a baffle.

I also have an RCBS Uniflow, Midway Indispensable, Hornady L-N-L, and Harrell Custom 90 Powder measures. I use them all but each has its specific charge sizes that I have found each measures works well at. Also, with multiple measures, I do not have to change over a measure to the other drum size. It helps that I have been collecting reloading equipment for over 30 years.

A side note, since I modified a Redding 10-X to operate on the progressives, I use the Hornady L-N-L less and less.

At one time I had a Lee Perfect powder Measure and I could not get it to work for me.

Within the capacity limits of any of my powder measures, all of them perform well. I have just found some small benefit or feature that makes a particular powder measure work a bit better for my purposes. There are many other excellent powder measures out there, I just have not tried them--yet.

Hope this helps.

 

[Walkalong]

I load 700X in .44 Spl and I don't do anything but run the press using my 10X measure dropping automatically on my LNL. It has about a .4 spread with an occasional drop outside that, but it shoots great. I just don't worry about it.

It makes nice light 9MM loads as well. It shoots well in .45 ACP too. Sure, I like powders that meter great, but on target results are more important.

The powders that don't meter well are very useful, they just are not the best choice for top loads in small cases.