dbrown
Member
the Lee Challenger Breech Lock Single Stage Press Kit or the Lee Challenger Breech Lock Single Stage Press Anniversary Kit
Which reloader is better?
- Thread starter dbrown
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dbrown
Member
which reloader kit is better?
One comes with the Auto Prime.
One comes with the Safety Prime.
IMO, both of these are destined for the garbage can.
The Safety Prime is useful on a Turret Press to alleviate the space issue when you have cases, bullets, loaded ammo, and primers all going on at the same time. But on a Breechlock, it's faster to just put the primers in by hand. Ditto for the Auto Prime handpriming tool.
One comes with the Safety Prime.
IMO, both of these are destined for the garbage can.
The Safety Prime is useful on a Turret Press to alleviate the space issue when you have cases, bullets, loaded ammo, and primers all going on at the same time. But on a Breechlock, it's faster to just put the primers in by hand. Ditto for the Auto Prime handpriming tool.
NeuseRvrRat
Member
i don't like picking up every individual primer. i like hand priming tools.
I started with and still have the Anniversary kit - GREAT single stage press by the way, made in America, built stronger than it needs to be and a terrific value for the $$$.
I prime on press, both with the single stage and on my Classic turret. With the Lee process you size and deprime on the upstroke of the ram and then prime on the down so it is very quick and convenient for me.
Many reloaders prefer to prime off the press using a hand primer - potayto-potahto, both methods end up with a primed case.
Like the grand Chevy-Ford-Dodge-BMW car debates, there are pretty avid/rabid fans of their brand of press. I kinda like them all, you can trade $$$$ for speed or features and because of Lee, there is a way for folks to participate in this great hobby at all budget and intensity levels.
If you look at your realistic ammo needs and your wallet there is a press system to match quite well. IMHO none of the main players make junk, they are all good tools with different options.
I prime on press, both with the single stage and on my Classic turret. With the Lee process you size and deprime on the upstroke of the ram and then prime on the down so it is very quick and convenient for me.
Many reloaders prefer to prime off the press using a hand primer - potayto-potahto, both methods end up with a primed case.
Like the grand Chevy-Ford-Dodge-BMW car debates, there are pretty avid/rabid fans of their brand of press. I kinda like them all, you can trade $$$$ for speed or features and because of Lee, there is a way for folks to participate in this great hobby at all budget and intensity levels.
If you look at your realistic ammo needs and your wallet there is a press system to match quite well. IMHO none of the main players make junk, they are all good tools with different options.
kerreckt
Member
Get a Dillon....any Dillon! It's worth it just for the no BS warranty.
ArchAngelCD
Member.
Sorry but I disagree the Challenger press is a good one. Lee makes a lot of good equipment but some, well, not so good. Their Classic presses which are made of cast iron are very good but the Challenger press is on the poor side. I also do not like the breech lock system because it requires you to buy a bushing for each and every die you use. IMO a locking nut that can be fixed in place will accomplish the same end.
NeuseRvrRat
Member
just because it has the breech lock feature doesn't mean you have to use it. you can load on the challenger w/ breech lock with just one breech lock bushing.
ArchAngelCD
Member.
That is true but defeats the whole reason for having a breach lock system. I would much rather own a Classic Cast SS Lee press. If i didn't already have an RCBS Rockchucker I would buy a Lee Classic Cast SS press. But in the end, we all like different things and that's why these companies make so many presses.
mgmorden
Member
I started with one of the Annversary Kit (I think - it's the one with the Auto Prime) about 8 or 9 years ago. All the equipment is still working and in use well over 10k rounds later. Same primer, same powder measure, same press.
People like to disparage Lee, but realistically a single-stage setup ain't that hard to make. Their stuff works in that regard and works well.
You see the same thing in the cycling community. People love to rail on how bad Wal-mart bikes are and how they're useless and such. Well, if you're buying a road-bike or a mountain bike with complex gearing and such then sure, it ain't gonna work right. On the other hand, if it's a single speed fixie or a cruiser, even the cheapo brands work, because it's just not that complicated of a machine.
If/when I finally choose to go to a progressive setup I'll probably look at Hornady or Dillon rather than Lee, but for this level of starter kit, Lee works fine.
People like to disparage Lee, but realistically a single-stage setup ain't that hard to make. Their stuff works in that regard and works well.
You see the same thing in the cycling community. People love to rail on how bad Wal-mart bikes are and how they're useless and such. Well, if you're buying a road-bike or a mountain bike with complex gearing and such then sure, it ain't gonna work right. On the other hand, if it's a single speed fixie or a cruiser, even the cheapo brands work, because it's just not that complicated of a machine.
If/when I finally choose to go to a progressive setup I'll probably look at Hornady or Dillon rather than Lee, but for this level of starter kit, Lee works fine.
Lost Sheep
Member
Neither the Lee Safety Prime nor the Auto-prime involve picking up individual primers.
Are you thinking about the Ram Prime?
Lost Sheep
Well, think of it as a regular press with a bonus. You can pop your dies out to inspect/clean them, midway through a batch. I've found that useful when lube builds up in a seating die, or when I suspect I might have the wrong seating stem in there.
Yeah, the Breechlock is aluminum alloy. That makes it cheaper and lighter. It's still an O-frame. Any little flex in there only matters if you want to float your die off the shellplate when sizing rifle brass.
No, we were discussing the advantages of priming on the ram, not the Ram Prime. The Ram Prime is an add-on for presses that don't have a built in priming system (or a crappy one). The Breechlock has a very nice priming system built in. Just slide the large or small priming arm into the side of the ram, and you're good to go.
On the Breechlock, the priming arm comes out the right side, so you can put each primer in by hand while you put the next case in with your other hand. On the Classic SS, you can swap the primer arm to either the left or right side.
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NeuseRvrRat
Member
no, i was thinking about the post directly above mine in which GLOOB said that he'd trash both the auto-prime and the safety prime and just put each primer in by hand.
Just to clarify, I actually have the Breechlock Kit. I DID in fact trash the Auto Prime. I DO put in each primer by hand. 
Some things I detest about the AutoPrime:
1. It sucks to load. The newer square ones where you can dump the whole tray at once are an improvement.
2. Handles too small. The Breechlock press IS a huge, ergonomic handle with just the right leverage. Just adjust the handle down so the front of the O frame is the other handle and get a perfect squeeze for every primer.
3. Wish the shellholder faced the other way. So you put the case in and start the operation. Then when you let go, the case would drop into the bin, clearing the path for the next case. With the AutoPrime, you have to tilt the thing one way to get it to feed, then tilt it all the way over to the other side to get the case to drop out. I played around with pushing the case out with the next one, but that was still less efficient.
4. When there's a screwup (misfeed or a crimped pocket), then you have to knock out the primer with a decapping pin or crush it in and set the case aside. On the ram, you just raise the ram and pop out the offending primer.
5. The Auto Prime doesn't size/decap/prime all in one operation and take up only 1 cubic inch of space when you're not using it. Instead you need a big ole box to store it, the extra feed tray, the extra priming arm, and the special shellholders.
6. Sure you can prime on your couch. After getting everything set up so you're comfortable, next thing you know you're out of primers. Then you have to get up and start the whole loading sequence all over again. Not even close to worth the effort.
Some things I detest about the AutoPrime:
1. It sucks to load. The newer square ones where you can dump the whole tray at once are an improvement.
2. Handles too small. The Breechlock press IS a huge, ergonomic handle with just the right leverage. Just adjust the handle down so the front of the O frame is the other handle and get a perfect squeeze for every primer.
3. Wish the shellholder faced the other way. So you put the case in and start the operation. Then when you let go, the case would drop into the bin, clearing the path for the next case. With the AutoPrime, you have to tilt the thing one way to get it to feed, then tilt it all the way over to the other side to get the case to drop out. I played around with pushing the case out with the next one, but that was still less efficient.
4. When there's a screwup (misfeed or a crimped pocket), then you have to knock out the primer with a decapping pin or crush it in and set the case aside. On the ram, you just raise the ram and pop out the offending primer.
5. The Auto Prime doesn't size/decap/prime all in one operation and take up only 1 cubic inch of space when you're not using it. Instead you need a big ole box to store it, the extra feed tray, the extra priming arm, and the special shellholders.
6. Sure you can prime on your couch. After getting everything set up so you're comfortable, next thing you know you're out of primers. Then you have to get up and start the whole loading sequence all over again. Not even close to worth the effort.
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gamestalker
member
I like "O" design RCBS presses myself. As for the "no BS customer service", RCBS lives up to that just fine. I have two very old RCBS single stage presses that have had thousands upon thousands of pistol and rifle rounds loaded on them and they are still as tight as the day I bought them.
I like some Lee products, but not so much their presses and a few other tools of the trade that are kind of cheesy.
GS
I like some Lee products, but not so much their presses and a few other tools of the trade that are kind of cheesy.
GS
GP100man
Member
I`d say it really depends on your needs & available time .
If I were to need 2k rounds a week I mite opt for a Dillion machine , but I don`t & I have a few single stage/turret presses that more than satisfy my needs .
I don`t start reloading if I know I gotta go do summtin in an hr. , I use it as "me time" relax a bit & let it be theraputic to say the least , even if I don`t build but 5-10 new rounds to try in a rifle.
An aluminum framed is ,well aluminum, will wear a bit faster & may flex more, under extreme cases may strech ,but it`ll take many rounds & a good bit of pressures to show any measureable signs .
I like the new (or somewhat new) idea of the primer going thru the ram to be collcted or the can , it keeps all the primer grit/grime off the workin parts .
A good press & a good set of balance beam scales is basics you`ll always need , the rest is just stuff.
I myself have been lookin at the Redding Big Boss II.
If I were to need 2k rounds a week I mite opt for a Dillion machine , but I don`t & I have a few single stage/turret presses that more than satisfy my needs .
I don`t start reloading if I know I gotta go do summtin in an hr. , I use it as "me time" relax a bit & let it be theraputic to say the least , even if I don`t build but 5-10 new rounds to try in a rifle.
An aluminum framed is ,well aluminum, will wear a bit faster & may flex more, under extreme cases may strech ,but it`ll take many rounds & a good bit of pressures to show any measureable signs .
I like the new (or somewhat new) idea of the primer going thru the ram to be collcted or the can , it keeps all the primer grit/grime off the workin parts .
A good press & a good set of balance beam scales is basics you`ll always need , the rest is just stuff.
I myself have been lookin at the Redding Big Boss II.
dragon813gt
Member
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- Jun 30, 2011
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- 1,137
Please elaborate. I can't justify spending that amount of money for a tool that doesn't meet my reloading requirements. It can have the greatest warranty and it's still worthless to me.
The OP is also asking about single stage kits. I don't think he's looking for a Dillon.
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floydster
Member
I think Lee should just go out of business, that would take care of 95% of the reloaders, then all of you Lee bashers would be satisfied, Lee is all American made, not like some of the so called great companys some people hold dear to thier hearts and are made in China.
I am sick of this, and they get the average guy into the game by 1/4 th the cost of the BIG boys.
I am sick of this, and they get the average guy into the game by 1/4 th the cost of the BIG boys.
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splattergun
Member
The Autoprime is the hand-held priming tool. It is not so tough to load, simply place the square tray on top of your open box of primers, then turn it back over. Place the cover, then shake lightly to flip the primers.
Using it is a bit more complicated. I always have to be certain to hold it at a compound angle so that the primers slide down the channel to the mechanism. I hold it in my right hand (being a righty) pointing about 30 deg down and 45 to the left. That way, the tray and press mechanism point away from my face, with the lever in the web between thumb and forefinger and the other 4 fingers on the presser- body. I squeeze my hand to operate the lever. It still takes an occassional shake to get the primers to slide down the channel, and I need to be careful to maintain the right angles. It took practice to get my technique down (a few hundred rounds) but now I can punch in primers without hand fatigue.
Lee has a new version of this tool called the Ergo Prime, which moves the lever to the other side so that your fingers, not your thumb, actuate the lever. I might try it if this one breaks beyhond economical repair. Meanwhile, I will keep an open mind regarding other mfrs hand primers. If something better plops into my hand, I'll try it.
I also sometimes prime on the press using the primer insert that fits on the ram. It works fine, but I am usually not in a mood to pick up individual primers with my fat old fingers. I have not used the Safety Prime, so can't comment.
I have only loaded a couple thousand 9mm and 30-06 rounds on my Lee Breechlock press so far, thus my experience is limited, but I have not had any issues whatsoever with the quality or function of this press. It works every time, the way it is supposed to, as long as I follow the instructions. Keep all friction points lubed with white lithium. Contrary to what some might believe, it is made of cast aluminum alloy, as are some other 'top-end' brands. It is a simple, functional and economical single stage press. The ammo I have worked up so far out-performs any factory rounds I've tried.
Lee's customer service gets A1 rating from me for the only time I had occassion to contact them. They quickly replaced free of charge a tiny rod retainer clip that popped off when I dropped my Auto Prime from a high shelf.
I will likely get a Lee Classic Turret next year to increase my pistol loading volume, but the SS will stay on my bench for rifle loads as long as it wants to stay. I have no doubt that my grandson will be using it long after I'm gone.
Using it is a bit more complicated. I always have to be certain to hold it at a compound angle so that the primers slide down the channel to the mechanism. I hold it in my right hand (being a righty) pointing about 30 deg down and 45 to the left. That way, the tray and press mechanism point away from my face, with the lever in the web between thumb and forefinger and the other 4 fingers on the presser- body. I squeeze my hand to operate the lever. It still takes an occassional shake to get the primers to slide down the channel, and I need to be careful to maintain the right angles. It took practice to get my technique down (a few hundred rounds) but now I can punch in primers without hand fatigue.
Lee has a new version of this tool called the Ergo Prime, which moves the lever to the other side so that your fingers, not your thumb, actuate the lever. I might try it if this one breaks beyhond economical repair. Meanwhile, I will keep an open mind regarding other mfrs hand primers. If something better plops into my hand, I'll try it.
I also sometimes prime on the press using the primer insert that fits on the ram. It works fine, but I am usually not in a mood to pick up individual primers with my fat old fingers. I have not used the Safety Prime, so can't comment.
I have only loaded a couple thousand 9mm and 30-06 rounds on my Lee Breechlock press so far, thus my experience is limited, but I have not had any issues whatsoever with the quality or function of this press. It works every time, the way it is supposed to, as long as I follow the instructions. Keep all friction points lubed with white lithium. Contrary to what some might believe, it is made of cast aluminum alloy, as are some other 'top-end' brands. It is a simple, functional and economical single stage press. The ammo I have worked up so far out-performs any factory rounds I've tried.
Lee's customer service gets A1 rating from me for the only time I had occassion to contact them. They quickly replaced free of charge a tiny rod retainer clip that popped off when I dropped my Auto Prime from a high shelf.
I will likely get a Lee Classic Turret next year to increase my pistol loading volume, but the SS will stay on my bench for rifle loads as long as it wants to stay. I have no doubt that my grandson will be using it long after I'm gone.
ranger335v
Member
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2006
- Messages
- 3,797
"If i didn't already have an RCBS Rockchucker I would buy a Lee Classic Cast SS press. "
Ditto. My RC is an okay press but it's not great; Lee's Classic Cast is superior in every way.
That said, the Challengers are very good presses but compairing them to cast iron behemoths and sneering at the lighter press is silly. Buy what you need but don't buy more - that especially applies to any progressive, few reloaders ever even want one, much less buy one. I can't grasp why anyone would want either Lee or Hornady die bushing gimmicks but it isn't necessary for me to do so; if you want it, get it.
Lee's old Auto Prime tool has worked fine for those of us who use it correctly. I've used mine since '87 with no problems at all but if you're the type that needs all steel tools to survive by all means get something made of steel.
Ditto. My RC is an okay press but it's not great; Lee's Classic Cast is superior in every way.
That said, the Challengers are very good presses but compairing them to cast iron behemoths and sneering at the lighter press is silly. Buy what you need but don't buy more - that especially applies to any progressive, few reloaders ever even want one, much less buy one. I can't grasp why anyone would want either Lee or Hornady die bushing gimmicks but it isn't necessary for me to do so; if you want it, get it.
Lee's old Auto Prime tool has worked fine for those of us who use it correctly. I've used mine since '87 with no problems at all but if you're the type that needs all steel tools to survive by all means get something made of steel.
tryshoot
Member
I have RCBS, LEE,Hornady and other reloading stuff. (no dillion, but not aval around here) LEE has the best tool for the money avalable. Their dies are in my opin. are better than anybody else.
GP100man
Member
If not for Richard Lee there mite be alot fewer handloaders today !!!
For handgun ammo ya just can`t beat the powder thru & auto disc system for the coin spent !!!
For handgun ammo ya just can`t beat the powder thru & auto disc system for the coin spent !!!
StretchNM
Member
Lee is a Great American company. They sell reloading equipment, NOT insurance, so if you're a guy who buys the extended warranty on everything from stereos to automobiles, better to buy another brand, where the insurance rider is included in the price.
The Classic Cast series are by far the best of Lees presses. They're as good as any out there, and cost less.
The Breechlock is not a bad press. It's aluminum and, being light in weight, gives the impression of poor quality, which isn;t so. Someone mentioned earlier that with the Breechlock you must have a bushing for each die. It's nice when you do, but is NOT necessary at all. You just leave one bushing in the press, and screw in the individual dies like you would on any other press.
Lee makes fine equipment. If they did nothing more than double the price of all their items, nobody would complain about them anymore. Guys might even read the instructions that come with the Safety Scale and use it like the superbly accurate little scale that it is.
Sadly though, the more something costs, the more some guys think it's quality. Guys will even pay two and three times what a Lee product costs for "X-brand" of press, then jump for joy when they called the maker because some minor $2 part broke and the company sent him a new one. "It was free man!! They even paid shipping!!"
Hehehe. Naw. It wasn't free - you paid for it. In most cases, you still have LOTS of credit with that company. So....break away!
The Classic Cast series are by far the best of Lees presses. They're as good as any out there, and cost less.
The Breechlock is not a bad press. It's aluminum and, being light in weight, gives the impression of poor quality, which isn;t so. Someone mentioned earlier that with the Breechlock you must have a bushing for each die. It's nice when you do, but is NOT necessary at all. You just leave one bushing in the press, and screw in the individual dies like you would on any other press.
Lee makes fine equipment. If they did nothing more than double the price of all their items, nobody would complain about them anymore. Guys might even read the instructions that come with the Safety Scale and use it like the superbly accurate little scale that it is.
Sadly though, the more something costs, the more some guys think it's quality. Guys will even pay two and three times what a Lee product costs for "X-brand" of press, then jump for joy when they called the maker because some minor $2 part broke and the company sent him a new one. "It was free man!! They even paid shipping!!"
Hehehe. Naw. It wasn't free - you paid for it. In most cases, you still have LOTS of credit with that company. So....break away!
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Lost Sheep
Member
Correction, please: The breechlock is not a press. It is a design variant available on the Hand press, Challenger and the Classic single stage presses.
Lost Sheep
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