New to reloading- help me buy

[Scott-NC]

I posted recently about “reload or buy” ammo. Based partly on everyone’s input I’ve decided to take the plunge! I’ve been reading on the subject, and I’m getting excited about getting started. I’m planning to get started with a single stage press, and dies for 9mm.

I’m thinking a Lee Challenger kit. I’m sure there will be some things I would choose differently if purchased separately, but I’m ok with eventually replacing anything I want to upgrade.
What do you think of this as a start? (And by the way- is there any real difference in the two kits below? The contents are listed a different way and the pictures are slightly different)

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/121744/lee-challenger-breech-lock-single-stage-press-kit
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/42...reech-lock-single-stage-press-anniversary-kit

And is this what I need to order with it? (and why go with 4 die over 3 die set?)

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/140349/lee-carbide-3-die-set-9mm-luger
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/885350/lee-deluxe-carbide-4-die-set-9mm-luger

 

[joecil]

Other than what comes with them but all the main stuff is there. It is a good place to start in my opinion also.

I do suggest however instead of going to midway you get it from FS Reloading as you will save some money on both price and shipping as well as about 4 business day shipping at least it has been for me. Oh and I'm not an employee nor having any dealings with them other than like you buying equipment.

https://fsreloading.com/category/reloading-equipment/kits/

 

[Starter52]

I would recommend a Lee Turret press, which is not all that more expensive than a single-stage press. The turret press is better for handgun calibers IMO. Besides, you can always remove the auto index and use a turret press like a single stage, but not vice versa.

I have used the three die sets for years and don't see any real need for the fourth die, expecially not for 9mm loads.

 

[BYJO4]

The kits are almost the same so I don't think it makes any difference. However, you also need a caliper, bullet puller, case cleaner, loading manual, and powder trickler. As time goes on, there will be other items that you will want but this will get you started. I would get the 4 die set. Many reloaders including myself like to seat the bullet and crimp in seperate steps when loading semi auto calibers. Good luck with your new hobby.

 

[Rmeju]

+1 on the Lee turret. I started out with a turret (Redding T-7) and I still use that a decent amount. The redding is a beast, and it's definitely more expensive, but I've used the Lee and it got the job done and has auto-indexing, which I thought was an awesome value for the price.

Also +1 on the Lee 3 die set for 9mm. I started out buying all the 4 die sets for pistol calibers, and I've only ever used one of them.

 

[Waldog]

Lee presses are ok, and do the job. Their reloading kits will work. However, the LEE scale is the biggest piece of junk ever boxed by a manufacturer. It is accurate but, it is VERY DIFFICULT level and zero. It is also VERY EASY TO MISREAD, which can lead to damaged guns and injured shooters.
So much so, that I truely feel the thing is not safe to use. That is based on trying to teach reloading in a class room environment with NEW non-reloading students.

 

[Lost Sheep]

Check the kit from Kempf's gun shop. $210 including dies for the Lee Classic Turret and nothing you don't need except the ammo boxes. No wasted money on things you already know you don't want.

You will have to add a manual, a scale, calipers and chamfer/deburring tools and bullet puller, but some of those can wait a while.

If you do go with the single stage, you probably will not appreciate the 4th die in the 4-die set. The 3rd die can seat and crimp at the same time (although the adjustment is more complex than if you do the seating and the crimping separately).

Good luck

Lost Sheep

 

[Warp]

Check the kit from Kempf's gun shop. $210 including dies for the Lee Classic Turret and nothing you don't need except the ammo boxes. No wasted money on things you already know you don't want.

You will have to add a manual, a scale, calipers and chamfer/deburring tools and bullet puller, but some of those can wait a while.

If you do go with the single stage, you probably will not appreciate the 4th die in the 4-die set. The 3rd die can seat and crimp at the same time (although the adjustment is more complex than if you do the seating and the crimping separately).

Good luck

Lost Sheep

I'm in the same basic position as OP. Trying not to have redundant threads. Question: Which of the bold could wait awhile? I am guessing bullet puller?

 

[Warp]

Check the kit from Kempf's gun shop. $210 including dies for the Lee Classic Turret and nothing you don't need except the ammo boxes. No wasted money on things you already know you don't want.

You will have to add a manual, a scale, calipers and chamfer/deburring tools and bullet puller, but some of those can wait a while.

If you do go with the single stage, you probably will not appreciate the 4th die in the 4-die set. The 3rd die can seat and crimp at the same time (although the adjustment is more complex than if you do the seating and the crimping separately).

Good luck

Lost Sheep

That kit is $210 at kempf's. https://kempfgunshop.com/index.php?...facturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=41
However, it is $13 to upgrade to the pro auto disk powder measure.

The kit is $215 at Midway, but it includes the pro auto disk powder measure.

Am I missing something, or is it actually less expensive at Midway??

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/78...dex-deluxe-kit?cm_cat=Cart&cm_pla=ProductDesc

It is

 

[Lost Sheep]

That kit is $210 at kempf's. https://kempfgunshop.com/index.php?...facturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=41
However, it is $13 to upgrade to the pro auto disk powder measure.

The kit is $215 at Midway, but it includes the pro auto disk powder measure.

Am I missing something, or is it actually less expensive at Midway??

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/78...dex-deluxe-kit?cm_cat=Cart&cm_pla=ProductDesc

It is

Does Midway include the dies? 4-Die deluxe set?

I notice that the Midway kit includes a couple of hand tools and the Lee Safety Scale instead of the Die set. An adequate trade-off since it is usually the Lee Scale that people want to trade off for something easier to read.

Truly, the free marketplace is a great leveler of the playing field. Last year, Kempf's was the ONLY retailer offering a kit built around the Classic Turret. Now, they are popping up all over.

If I was in the market for another Classic Turret (especially in a kit) I would have to check out Midway, Graf's, Cabela's and others. But I still have a warm spot in my heart for Kempf's, as they force the minimum extra items onto the kit buyer.

Lost Sheep

 

[Lost Sheep]

I'm in the same basic position as OP. Trying not to have redundant threads. Question: Which of the bold could wait awhile? I am guessing bullet puller?

One NEEDS (physically) only three things to load.

A press, because fingers are not strong enough to form metal
Dies because fingers are not precise enough to form metal
A way to mete powder, because eyeballs are not precise enough to form metal

As you surmised, a bullet puller can wait until you have assembled a cartridge you don't trust. Debur/chamfer tools can wait until you have a rough case mouth. Calipers can wait until you have chambering problems, question the length of your cartridges or diameter of your slugs or get anywhere near the edges of your cartridges' performance envelope (though I am re-thinking this opinion).

You have to use your judgement, based on your reading and experience.

 

[Warp]

Does Midway include the dies? 4-Die deluxe set?

I notice that the Midway kit includes a couple of hand tools and the Lee Safety Scale instead of the Die set. An adequate trade-off since it is usually the Lee Scale that people want to trade off for something easier to read.

Truly, the free marketplace is a great leveler of the playing field. Last year, Kempf's was the ONLY retailer offering a kit built around the Classic Turret. Now, they are popping up all over.

If I was in the market for another Classic Turret (especially in a kit) I would have to check out Midway, Graf's, Cabela's and others. But I still have a warm spot in my heart for Kempf's, as they force the minimum extra items onto the kit buyer.

Lost Sheep

Well holy heck, duh, the dies. It doesn't specify that I can see, but are those carbide dies??

I agree, from what I've read that does sound like a good tradeoff. I've seen a lot about the LEE scale being hard to read and very hard to level, esp on a less than perfectly level bench.

 

[dab102999]

Pistol dies from kemp are carbide...riffel r not..u could wait on a bullet puller but if u order later u will be paying shipping on a single item...with the kit i am sure shipping on that bullet puller is minimal...they also have a nice little digital sacale for around 30 bucks..go where u want to buy but YOU WILL NOT be disapointed with kemphs...expessially there service

 

[dickttx]

Started reloading about 1969. Just bought my first bullet puller a couple of weeks ago. Used it to salvage 10 Starline 38 Super cases and bullets. Only spent $20 + shipping to reclaim $2.50 worth of supplies.
Maybe I will get to use it again sometime! Hope not.

 

[ranger335v]

"New to reloading- help me buy"

A loading manual is NOT optional. And no noob needs, or will benefit, from more than one; the confusion factor of the differences in mulipule books vastly out weighs any illusions of "help". I used ONE manual fot the first five years I loader amd never felt I needed another until new powders and cartridges were introduced. I have about two dozen NOW but I have enough experience that the ever present differences don't bother me.

I won't tell you "what I use and love" because your needs are different from mine and I know it. I will tell you some things to cut through the fog of conflicting advise tho.

First, NO KIT is complete, they all require the user to add important stuff. I would prefer to see anyone pick out what will work better for his needs but noobs rarely know which items to choose. The 'net can help IF people don't get to eager to see others buy what they prefer! Fortunately, NONE of our makers produce junk so no matter what color it's painted you WILL get good tools, the difference in any of it is near triffling points of personal taste - Ford or Chevy.

Lee has the best deals available for presses and dies. Their "best" presses, steel and cast iron, are the Classic Cast and Classic Turret and they are equal or suprtiot in function to any of their competitors presses. Their cast alum presses (Challenger, Turret and Reloader) are very good but obviously not as massively strong as the bigger iron ones but the added cost of going to the top isn't a lot. (I don't suggerst anyone buy any press that requires a "quick-change" bushing gimmick.)

Lee's dies work and make quality ammo as well as any other conventional die sets. Personal views about Lee's die lock rings vary; some of us use them correctly and love 'em, some of us foam at the mouth just talking about them, some of us are indifferent. Whatever, the rings are just a personal thing that has nothing to do with the functional quality of the dies.

I don't think anyone but RCBS ("Cowboy" dies) has made any non-carbide handgun dies for at least 30 years so cautions about that are virtually meaningless.

A case mouth de-burring tool is nice, but cases can easily be de-burred with a pocket knife and a quick run around the inner edge of the mouth.

A precision dial caliper is very nice to have but no one "needs" one. Use a factory round as a seater dummy or, better yet, seat so you can crimp in the cannalure and be done with it. Or, for auto loaders, seat so the ammo will feed and chamber reliably. Then develop your charge at that OAL.

Value of tumbers is over rated but clean cases are mandatory, inside and out. If the outsides are dirty, we can wipe 'em off. If the insides are dirty, we can wash 'em in a bowl of soapy water; flush and dry before use. Meaning it's important to remove any DIRT but not trivial smoke or bullet lube residue. Tumble cleaning IS "faster" and easier than one at a time but we reloaded a very long time before tumblers came along and a LOT of guys still don't bother with tumbling. And, while surgecally clean or glittery polished cases are purty they don't shoot a bit better nor are they any easier on dies.

I like seperate crimp dies because they fit my prefered work methods but I can't fathom why or how setting up a fourth die hangun crimper would be any simplier than simply adjusting a standard seater to crimp properly. No matter how we crmp, sonsistaincy demands consistant case lengths.

I have two conventional case length trinners and use them for specific tasks. But, if all I want to do is trim a modest amount of cases quickly (and precisely) I use Lee's very simple and inexpensive case trimmer tools.

The current fasination with quirky and expensive (for a "good" one) digital reloading scales pizzles me. Beams are fully as accurate, often more sensitive and follow a powder trickler much better. And a beam scale will last several decades with out concern, my first is now some 47 years old and is still doing as good as it did at first!
Lee's little "Perfect Powder Scale" sure isn't perfect but it's very good - extremely sensitive and accurate. They ARE quite light so it's easy to bump them around but a bit of practice will cure most user clumsyness. I see no reason to say they're difficult to zero and, while they can be a little demanding to read - at first - that little sliding "tenths" viernier has a lock to hold it firmly in place during use; set it and then all the user needs to do is add powder until it balances. ??

Adding powder to bring a charge to weight is easiest done with a good powder trickler but, IMHO, none of the commercially available designs are good. We can do the same thing with a "thrift shop" baby spoon.

Bullet pullers are like an erasure on a pencil; sometimes you make a mistake and it's nice to have. But a lot of loaders live without one. IF you absolutely want to pull bullets you can remove the die from your press, run the cartridge up and gasp the bullet with wire cutters and lower the ram. You'll lose the bullet that way but, unless you have a pile of 'em to pull, it won't much matter. If you DO have a pile to pull, THEN get a puller. And, if you may want to pull both pistol AND rifle bullets, get one of the hammer types.

You WILL benefit from having a proper size loading block to hold your cases while you work. Two is better.

We can push small straight wall cases into carbide dies without case lube but rifle cases require lubing or they will enter the die and be stuck so bad the rims will pull off and removing the rest demands a "Stuck Case Remover". Stuck cases are ALWAYS due to improper lubing so do that right and you'll never have a stuck case.

Case lubes come in four broad catagories; thick oils, soft soaps, waxes and thin 'spray-on' oils. Each works fine IF you use them according to the instuctions. Nothing ever works well for those who know so much that they ignore the instructions!

Have fun!

 

[Warp]

Pistol dies from kemp are carbide...riffel r not..u could wait on a bullet puller but if u order later u will be paying shipping on a single item...with the kit i am sure shipping on that bullet puller is minimal...they also have a nice little digital sacale for around 30 bucks..go where u want to buy but YOU WILL NOT be disapointed with kemphs...expessially there service

Silly man, I NEVER order one single item at a time.

 

[Rmeju]

"Pro" Auto disk powder measure is SO. MUCH. BETTER. (if you buy a turret or progressive, or plan to upgrade to one). If you have at least a turret, upgrade if you can possibly stomach the price increase. You won't be sorry (I never knew this until I actually used a regular auto disk on a progressive/turret. I could explain it, or you can trust me. PM if you want more.

I would definitely recommend a bullet puller (hammer type inertia). I make mistakes. I don't know about other people, but you can recover all your components when you make a mistake. Hammer type works for any round. And they're not expensive. Optional, as other posters have noted, but bang for the buck makes it a no-brainer (IMO) to put high on your list of optional stuff.

I don't like the Lee scale, but not because I found it to be inaccurate... it was really slow to give a measure compared to my regular scale. Super frustrating, and really slowed things down, especially for new reloaders who like to frequently check their powder charges. I'd still use the basic Lee scale over any digital scale. I started with a digital, and it was a complete waste of money. Never again! Don't make the same mistake I did, and save yourself a bunch of money!

Manual(s) are not optional. I have Hornady, Lee, and Speer. You don't need any particular one, but I would definitely get at least one, and maybe a second.

Tumbler is nice, but there are easy ways to clean your brass without one (water, laundry detergent, and a little vinegar works great... and faster than tumbling, especially if you have a good way to dry them out).

Calipers are technically optional (sort of), but I wouldn't be without a pair, especially for a new reloader, who probably doesn't understand the workarounds to avoid the need to have one. Honestly, it's one of the things on my bench that has many, many uses, and I wouldn't be without them. A decent pair is going to cost you a little cash, but honestly, I wouldn't recommend going without. I got a digital pair for ~$50, but that was in '06. Dial calipers are totally fine, and cost less. Bottom line, even very basic caliper would probably serve you quite well.

If you go with a single stage, I would definitely avoid the extra crimp die, since you can completely cut out an operation (which you'll appreciate on a single stage, unless you don't get bored easy, AND have a lot of time to dedicate to reloading). Turret + dedicated crimp die is a little bit better, and no big deal on a progressive. That said, if you're trying to cut out "optional" costs, this is the first place I would start. Die sets are cheaper, and you save a bunch of time. Learn to crimp on your seater, and then move to a separate crimp die if that's your thing.

Nobody really sells carbide dies these days, BUT sometimes people will try to trade you a set. Double check, and if anyone ever offers you to sell or trade you a set of non-carbide dies, skip it.

 

[Lost Sheep]

If someone offers you a set of tool steel dies (that is, not Tungsten-Carbide and not Titanium Nitride), take them. The seat/crimp die and the case-mouth belling die are identical to the ones found in the tool steel die sets. Only the sizing die has T-C or T-N. It is always nice to have a spare crimping die, belling die or decapping stem from the sizing die. $5 would be a bargain. $10, marginally worth it.

You can turn a 3-die set into a 4-die set by the simple introduction of your spare seat/crimp die (adjusted to apply no seating) and backing out your seating/crimp die to apply no crimp.

Lost Sheep

 

[Lost Sheep]

Yes, the dies are included, and the Deluxe set, too. You have to tell them whether it is for rifle or handgun and the caliber, of course, so when you go down the contents list, the word "dies" doesn't jump out at you right away.

The Lee Safety Scale is hard to read, especially if you are not familiar wth the concept of a vernier. The scale works best if you install a shelf at eye level where you can get your nose close to it and in strong light.

None of those three elements (shelf, close, light) have anything to do with how the scale itself operates, but how easily a human being can operate the scale.

For $10 more, a weight mounted on a threaded rod like the RCBS 10-10 would have been a BIG design advantage.

Lost Sheep

 

[Starter52]

Concerning scales, I used a standard powder scale for years, but with digital scales selling for so little on the internet I put away my trusty old RCBS and never looked back. A digital powder scale is the way to go IMO.

 

[joecil]

I agree with Starter on the scale and I have a Hornady GS-1500 scale that is between $30 to $40. Inexpensive accurate and does the job.

 

[[email protected]]

There isnt much I can add to what has already been said. I started basically with the first kit that you listed. It will do most of what you need it to and if you think that you may get into rifle loading it will serve you well there as well. I also had the lee classic turret press with the pro powder measure. I still wish I didnt get rid of it when I got my hornady ap press. Reloading takes time and money so you need to evaluate how much you have of both and decide which way to go. I compare reloading to racing ( the faster you want to go the more it costs).
lee offers a c frame press for around $25.00 #90045 at fsreloading.com It is not the best or sturdiest press, but it will get the job done. I would also suggest the 4 die set over the three die set they are $37.00 at fsreloading. You can use the pro auto disc on a single stage and it runs about $33.00. the lee hand primer with one shell holder can be had for about 20.00. the primer pocket cleaner and chamfer tool runs about 4.00.
All this will cost a little over $120.00 and you can pick a good powder scale and dial calipers and bullet puller and manuals. If you decide that reloading is not for you then you dont have a large investment. If you decide you like reloading then you can upgrade to the lee turret press by just buying the press without the kit.
I am not saying that fsreloading is the best place to buy from. I do order from them and it just was the easiest place for me to go to get you some prices. Shop around for the best deal and dont forget about the shipping charges. I did have a rebate code for midway 10 off 50 dollar order pm me if you want it.

 

[bbuddtec]

especially if you are on a budget, it is a great starter kit, and yeah they appear to be identical. I got the anniv. and churned out thousands before I went progressive for one caliber, but I still think a single stage puts you more in touch with the concept and particulars that is so much a part of reloading.

 

[James2]

Manual, press, dies, scale, funnel, lube. That is all I had starting out. The press had a priming arm on it. I made my own loading board. Not too long after getting started I added de-burring tool, powder measure. It was many years before I got a case trimmer, calipers and a tumbler. I still do not have a bullet puller and at this point see no need for one.

 

[coalman]

Buy a Dillon progressive. Buy once, cry once (at the price) then enjoy the press for life.