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Which school of thought do you fall into re: hunting w/o permission?

Discussion in 'Hunting' started by Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow, Oct 9, 2009.

?

Which theory do you subscribe to?

  1. A

    172 vote(s)
    86.9%
  2. B

    17 vote(s)
    8.6%
  3. C

    1 vote(s)
    0.5%
  4. D

    8 vote(s)
    4.0%
  5. E

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
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  1. floridaboy

    floridaboy Member

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    This subject seems to have regional overtones. I grew up in Maryland and Virginia. Unless land was posted, I hunted it. No one seemed to mind. I also sometimes hunted posted land, shouldn't have, but did. No one seemed to mind. Of course, in those areas land was mostly heavily timbered. Here in Florida, its completely different. I know the ranch manager for one of the Mormon farms, you better NOT get caught on their land unless you have a lease. $6000.00 for 600 acres. Per person. I can't afford to hunt here and am very seriously considering moving back north. Somehow, it just doesn't seem right to have well over 200,000 acres and not allow anyone without deep pockets to hunt. I'm in my fifties, and most unlikely to damage farm stock or infrastructure. Hell, they won't even let you hunt hogs without a lease. But they shoot them and just leave them lay there. It's their land, but........
     
  2. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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    The legality of that would depend on what status they have in the state.

    In a state where they are "game", this would be illegal. In a game where they are "non-game" or "vermin", it wouldn't be.
     
  3. MCgunner

    MCgunner Member

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    ArmedBear, you're lucky. Down here, they don't require signs or fences because you should KNOW it's private. LOL! There is Nat't forest land in east Texas, but I wouldn't hunt there. Good way to get shot, especially SHNF just north of Houston. Might as well pose with a target painted on your chest. :rolleyes: I hunt small game up there and HAVE unsuccessfully hunted deer on state WMAs up there. I think most WMAs in east Texas have a 20 percent or a lot less success rateon deer. You sorta have to live up there and know the woods to do any good. I'm 6 hours from my favorite place to hunt squirrels. I don't drive it too often just to hunt squirrels. Woundn't be so bad, but you gotta drive all the way through Houston. If anything is more dangerous than hunting in Sam Houston NF, it's driving through Houston. :rolleyes:
     
  4. Grumulkin

    Grumulkin Member

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    I don't hunt on people's private property without permission.

    In Ohio, it's illegal to hunt on private property whether or not it's fenced or posted without WRITTEN permission. It is even illegal to retrieve or follow wounded game onto private property without permission. The penalty for a first time offense can include a fine and jail time. If I were to find anyone hunting on my property without permission, law enforcement would be called.
     
  5. giggitygiggity

    giggitygiggity Member

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    Without a doubt, answer A is correct. Just because property is not posted does not mean that it is ok to hunt on it. Someone still owns it and have the right to not have people trespass with or without posting/fencing. The posting/fencing is merely a way to better insure that people know where one's property starts and another ends. I have found that most people don't mind if you hunt on their property as long as you simply ask first.
     
  6. floridaboy

    floridaboy Member

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    Hogs on private land in Florida are a non game species. On public land, they are a game animal. And, naturally, they seem to be right scare on the WMA land.
     
  7. DeepSouth

    DeepSouth Member

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    Okay, I got a quick true story for you. My dad caught someone hunting in his stand around 15+ years ago. The guy was charged with hunting without a licence, hunting (whitetail) with a rimfire rifle, hunting without hunters orange on, and lastly hunting on anthers property with out written permission.

    When my dad asked why there wasn't a trespassing charge, the Game Warden replied "You didn't have 'no trespassing' signs posted" My dad informed him that we had put up signs in the past but they ALWAYS got torn down. His reply was "Sorry, I understand but there isn't anything I can do" Dad didn't worry much about it, figuring the offender had enough charges against him to make the point.

    NOTE: This also means you can have verbal permission and still be hunting illegally, because you don't have WRITTEN permission.
     
  8. Flintknapper

    Flintknapper Member

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    DammitBoy wrote:


    There's your answer folks.

    To "knowingly" enter upon another persons land without permission, for purposes not immediately necessary is unethical.

    Regardless of what applicable law may allow....the moral implications are too plain to require argument.

    1. I may not know who the land belongs to BUT: I darn sure know it does NOT belong to me. Hence, I have no business there.

    2. The absence of fencing, signs or other methods to serve "notice" should NEVER be construed to mean: An "invitation" exists for you enter.


    But since "Common Sense" has died a lingering death over the last 30 yrs. I am not in the least surprised to find some people struggling with this.

    Its very simple: Not your land= Stay out!


    Flint.


    P.S. for those who would find this post abrasive, I suggest you buy a piece of land, pay the taxes, work the land, make improvements, invest your time, money, sweat, blood and tears then come back here in 5 years and post your reply with regards to trespassers.

    You will have had plenty of experience with them by then.

    Hopefully....none of them will have sued you and you will still own the land.
     
  9. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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    When half my state is open to access and to hunting, that's simply not a rule of thumb that works here.

    In Texas, it works.

    But it doesn't work here. I drive down the road, out behind downtown, and I can hunt. It's not my land, but it's public access.

    The key is "knowingly." I wouldn't knowingly trespass, just on principle. And around here, if it's not posted, developed, or fenced, there'd be no way to know. Chances are, it's public land. See the map I posted on the previous page.
     
  10. hogshead

    hogshead Member

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    Signs Signs everywhere Signs $%#&ing up the scenery. Just got back from Mi gamelands everywhere, 3 different maps and still not sure if I trespassed, please forgive me if I did. I think if you dont want people trespassing post it.
     
  11. TheIrishJedi

    TheIrishJedi Member

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    Trespassers make for some good fertilizer....
     
  12. CajunBass

    CajunBass Member

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    I haven't read all the reply's so someone has probably said it, but in Virginia, ALL private land is considered posted rather there are signs or not. If there are no signs, oral permission is required to hunt. If there are signs, written permission is required. Either way, permission is required.

    Sounds about right to me. But then I've never known anything else.
     
  13. AKElroy

    AKElroy Member

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    B---Doc is seeking feedback on whether it is morally appropriate to KNOWINGLY hunt on anothers land. I get that Idaho has gobs of public land, from a sportsmans standpoint I envy it. I also get that it might be very easy to stray onto unposted land. Down here in Texas, we have virtually zero public land, and our owners are fiercely defensive of thier rights. The question is whether you would poach thier land on purpose, and I doubt you would.
     
  14. scythefwd

    scythefwd Member

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    A for me, but then again all other options here are illegal. I still think it is rude to discharge a firearm on someone elses property when they don't know you are there or that you are armed.
     
  15. federalfarmer

    federalfarmer Member

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    I have owned rural land and would absolutely shoot you if you were on my property with a gun.

    Same thing as coming in my front door without knocking --- its going to cost you.
     
  16. zt77

    zt77 Member

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    I don't know which states this applies to but in many places blue (I think it was) stripes or triangles also is considered "posting"
     
  17. SammyIamToday

    SammyIamToday Member

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    There's very little public land here as well. I hunt on my uncle's farm for the most part and I have to buy a license and tags for that. He as the landowner does not. Seems to work pretty well for us. And ever since they brought the elk herd back to hunting levels, that lottery has helped to generate funds as well.

    Anyways, tangent aside, just interesting how much state laws can vary.

    I think a lot of this might be cultural differences based upon state size. Out west in places like Idaho, there's so many acres of public and private, that it would be difficult to keep track of property lines and I can see mistakes being inadvertently made. Every year before deer season rolls around I always go check with the neighbors of my uncle's place to make sure they are okay with me chasing deer onto their property if they cross the line. This may or may not be even remotely feasible in some places, I'm too ignorant to know. If it is though, I would think people should try to obtain permission before violating someone's property.
     
  18. Flintknapper

    Flintknapper Member

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    ArmedBear wrote:






    I rather doubt that. There may be no "easy/convenient" way to know, but the difficulty involved in finding out....in no way relieves you of the moral responsibility to do so. Sorry.

    I know that sounds like a hard line and I recognize things are somewhat different in certain parts of the country. But it wouldn't fly here in Texas.
     
  19. devildog4329

    devildog4329 Member

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    Last year on opening day i only spent 2 hours in my stand. The rest of the day i had to walk around kicking IMHO poachers off the private land I had permission to hunt. Most were out of state hunters saying they herd it was ok to hunt there and didnt have the fortitude to ask permission. It is not hard to ask someone permission to hunt. Knock on the door. Ask polity. Offer to work, or give part of the harvest. Most people are fine with that. People being rude and not abiding by the law give hunters a bad name and make land owners not want to give permission to hunt. Do us all a favor and use some tact.
     
  20. coloradokevin

    coloradokevin Member

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    I was raised under the philosophy that you need permission to hunt someone else's land, and that you should get that permission before you do so. I was also raised in an area where public and private lands were fairly checker boarded together, so it wasn't uncommon to accidentally end up on someone else's property without realizing it (if they had a problem with it they'd usually let you know, and we'd politely apologize and leave). Similarly, when my hunting friend acquired some land years later, we ran into the same issues where some folks would accidentally wander on to his property with no malicious intent.




    The issue of poaching is an interesting one. Poaching is typically defined as illegally taking game. I don't agree with sport poaching, or trophy poaching, or poaching just because you feel like hunting out of season. However, I've spent a good portion of my life hiking through the woods in some very depressed areas of Appalachia, where a lot of folks were truly dirt-floor poor. Over the course of my travels, I've occasionally ran across a meat-poacher or two.

    One of these guys explained to me that he knew he was hunting illegally, but was more concerned with feeding his family, ever since losing his factory job. He told me that he only hunts for the purpose of getting meat on the table, and was interested in harvesting whatever he could find (squirrel, rabbit, deer, etc). I didn't get the impression that he was too interested in listening to the cries from sport hunters saying: "you are stealing my game!". Honestly, despite my law-abiding (and law enforcing) nature, I can't say that I blamed this guy.

    In fact, if subsistence hunters were the only type of poachers out there, I doubt we'd even see any emphasis on poaching regulations! The fact remains that most poachers are doing so for sport, and are doing so for reasons that are far detached from necessity. By way of example, I had heard of the poaching incident involving Samson (a large bull elk near Estes Park, CO) long before I moved to this state... That was a very significant example of a problem poacher, and is probably more likely to represent the behavior of most poachers.

    To each their own I suppose, but I'm not going to morally criminalize a guy with limited resources for trying to feed his family. I can feed my family without hunting, and certainly without poaching. But, if I ever saw my life descend into a level of poverty where I had to choose between shooting Bambi out of season, or letting my family go hungry, then I suppose I'd be putting venison on the table.

    Again, just my $0.02



    Absolutely, eh? Seriously, I hate seeing posturing like this on these forums! Maybe I'm just in a cranky mood tonight, but I get so tired of the chest-thumping that often shows up on gun forums. The reason this statement particularly bothers me is because we are talking about a scenario where the person on your land would be a hunter (legally or illegally), not a gang of terrorist zombies!

    Are you honestly telling me that you'd simply shoot a hunter who accidentally ended up on your land? Even if the hunter was there without permission, and had disregarded a no hunting sign, are you going to shoot him/her for simply being there? Why not just call the Sheriff/Police, and/or tell the party to leave?

    What if the guy/gal was on your land because he/she was trying to find a game animal that they had wounded? What if he was actually trying to contact you (the landowner) due to a nearby emergency?

    Heck, I could go on for hours with the "what-if" scenarios... My only point here is that you will probably be heading to prison in short order if you approach someone with a "shoot first, ask questions later" philosophy just because they ended up on your piece of dirt (even if they were hunting on private land without permission -- which is a midemeanor at best in every area that I know of). If the person unlawfully entered your house we'd be looking at a completely different issue, and the same would be true if you were defending yourself from an imminent attack.

    But, please show me the law that allows you to "absolutely" shoot someone simply for 'being on [your] property with a gun'? And, if I misunderstood your meaning, I apologize... But, that seems like a rather bold assertion from where I'm sitting!
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2009
  21. slabuda

    slabuda Member

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    Thank you..
     
  22. AKElroy

    AKElroy Member

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    I would not. I have confronted tresspassers, and accepted their claim that they did not know they were on the wrong property, and they left peacefully, and alive. Life is precious, and asking/confronting someone that is simply in the wrong place, even if they are lying about not knowing, is very unlikely to escalate.

    Particularly when I am enquiring with a very non-confrontational voice, a smile, and a .30-30 hanging on my arm.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2009
  23. BADUNAME37

    BADUNAME37 Member

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    Suppose that person had just shot an animal in season and happened to chance upon your land to track their animal. You would absolutely shoot them, eh? And, if there were six of them, I presume by your statement that you would shoot all six?

    Would it be in the back, may I ask? Would it be to kill? To Maim?
    What would be the intent, or would it be just for the heck of it -- just to see what it would be like to kill someone?

    I see your signature line states "Live Like a Free Man." Perhaps with thinking like that there are so many new laws against gun ownership and our rights are being taken away left and right. Kill someone because they happened to be on your property?

    Join the Army and tell them you want to kill people.
    You want to be on the front lines in the middle east.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2009
  24. Leaky Waders

    Leaky Waders Member

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    I voted A and adhere to A

    If you want to hunt private land...then buy some!

    Or ask someone you know to hunt their land, or lease some.

    Otherwise stick to public land.

    If you walk through a parking lot and see a locked car...do you feel entitled to break into it? If the car next to it is unlocked...then is everything in it yours? Because the owner didn't leave a sign that said keep out?
     
  25. BADUNAME37

    BADUNAME37 Member

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    Yes, unless you own some large parcel (100 acres seems to ring a bell).
    Otherwise, YES, you do need a license to hunt on your own land here.
     
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