Which self-defense round in 4".357?

[TCW]

Which load would you put in your 4' GP100 .357 for home protection (single home in suburbia)?:

125gr 38 spl +p gold dot

or

Winchester white box .357 mag 110gr JHP (relatively mild)?

I'm looking for something effective, but with managable recoil/flash for the wife. These are two types that I currently own. Other suggestions are welcome.

Thanks!
TCW

 

[JLaw]

Since you mentioned "managable recoil/flash for the wife" you should go with the .38 Spl +P round. The .357 has a huge flash and lots of noise (but she would be unlikely to notice it in a "for real" situation). The Gold Dot has a good track record, I believe. My revolver at home is loaded with the ol' FBI load, 158 grn LSWCHP +P round. I know Remington makes some, I've heard that Winchester does also but I've never found any.

JLaw

 

[HiWayMan]

I would agree that the FBI load would be tops for this. 158gr LSWCHP.

 

[o/u mike]

My Choice

Federal makes a version of the FBI load with their Nyclad nylon coating, #P38G. It's somewhat hard to find. I've noticed the primers on this round are nicely sealed as well. Keeps the lead out of the barrel, and in terms of longer term storage, it won't oxidize like lead.

 

[RyanM]

Third vote for 158 gr LHP. Remington's load is the best performing one. Winchester and Federal are crap quality, and have crap politics. Buying from Winchester is buying from a company that says if you use a gun for self defense, and don't have a badge on your chest, you can eat crap and die.

At least they used to. Maybe that's changed now that they're under new ownership? I doubt it though.

http://www.firearmstactical.com/ammo_data/38special.htm

Federal
bare gel: 13.70", 0.60"
clothed gel: 15.55", 0.48"

Winchester
bare gel: 15.65", 0.49"
clothed gel: 21.90", 0.35"

Remington
bare gel: 15.50", 0.60"
clothed gel: 13.80", 0.58"

http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs12.htm

According to Olin-Winchester public relations, the Supreme SXT bullet design has not been factory tested in standard ordnance gelatin because it was not designed to meet police ammunition performance specifications. As a result, there's no valid and verifiable performance data available from Winchester or the FBI.

We find Winchester's attitude troubling because they're marketing a personal defense bullet (a life safety device) in which they confessed to us that they've no idea how well (or poorly) it performs. Therefore, we advise you not to buy and use Supreme SXT until Winchester gets its act together and coughs up performance data for this cartridge.

 

[bpisler]

If i was going to use a small bore in
my house/apt my first choice would be
the Remington 158gr LSWCHP.I'am also
partial to the black hills 38 +P
that's loaded with the 125gr gold
dot.It's a little faster than the 158
grain loads at 1050fps and has proved
to be accurate from 3 different 38's.

 

[Ohen Cepel]

I have always prefered the 125gr semi-jacketed hp myself, has a great track record. However, now I would look into some of the special loads that the major makers have made up expecially for short barreled guns (if I was looking to leave the 125gr, which I'm not).

The flash might be an issue but controllability in a stress situation isn't a concern in my mind. However, that's me and my twisted mind

 

[tbeb]

I would love to load my wife's .357 magnum Ruger Speed Six with .357 magnum Winchester 110 gr. JHP or .38 special +P Federal/Remington/Winchester 158 gr. lead semi-wadcutter hollowpoint.

She shot some .38 special +p Safestop 148 gr. and didn't like them. They recoil a little less than the two loads mentioned above. Her Ruger is loaded with .38 special +P Federal 125 gr. JHP. She has no problem controlling them. Recoil is comparable to a .38 special standard pressure (non +P) 158 gr. lead semi-wadcutter.

I say go with the most potent load your wife can handle. If the .38 special +P Speer Gold Dot 125 gr. JHP is her limit, then there's nothing wrong with them for self defense.

 

[Lancer]

125 grain JHP. Best rated one shot stop .357 magnum round ever made.

 

[MCgunner]

I'd go for the 125 grain 38+P for the purpose. First, less penetration IE over penetration in an urban environment. Second, indoors, dark, ANY .357 load will be excessively loud and too much flash. The .38 is bad enough.

I'd be careful about using loads that might penetrate too much and exit the house into the neighborhood. That's why they make Glasiers and other frangibles. I've never fired a frangible, so I cannot say much about 'em other than I've contemplated 'em for home use and may yet test 'em sometime. But, I'm in a little more spread out area on the edge of a small town, not in a neighborhood/subdivision or in a really built up urban situation.

My own home defense firearm is loaded with 140 grain +P 38s. I think about the over penetration thing a lot. You are liable for the damage a stray round might do regardless of circumstance. If you're in danger of your life, shoot at a bad guy, hit an innocent, shame on you, negligent homicide, at least in Texas.

 

[cpileri]

http://www.tacticalforums.com/cgi-bin/tacticalubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=78;t

http://www.tacticalforums.com/cgi-bin/tacticalubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=78;t=000756#000000
.357 Mag Win 180 gr Partition Gold (S357P) from S&W 686 4”
BG: vel=1075, pen=18.1”, RD=.57”, RW=171.1gr
4 layer denim: vel=1090 f/s, pen=20+”, RD=0.53, RW=175.6gr
auto windshield: vel=1072, pen=20+”, RD=0.39, RW=178.0gr

 

[nitesite]

We've finally settled on 125-gr .38 +P Federal Nyclads from our 4" 686.

I've even considered getting her re-acquainted with a 10-shot Ruger Mk II .

She's pretty recoil-shy. It would be nice if she loved R357M1s but it ain't gonna happen.

 

[Snowdog]

Where in the world did you manage to find Nyclads? I've been searching for the last few months for a reliable source and came to the conclusion that none exist and Nyclads remain an elusive creature.

If I were to use a .38special (steel frame capable of +P) or .357mag for defense and demanded both mild recoil and decent "smack", I would use what I keep in all my .38 special revolvers, Hornady 158gr SWCHP over 5gr of 231 (+P) in nickel +P brass and Win WSM primers. I just finished Play Dough tests with these and surprisingly discovered expansion after 2 layers of denim and a thick t-shirt. Great stuff.

 

[nitesite]

Where in the world did you manage to find Nyclads?

I had a box and a half from a purchase I made about three years ago. Then a shooting buddy gave me another full box just last month when he divested himself of his last .38 snubby.

I'm just as comfortable with the Pro-Load 125-gr +P Gold Dot loads I bought 2-3 years ago.

TCW

One compromise you may not have thought of (if you are thinking about 110-gr .357 loads) is the Cor-Bon DPX all copper .38+P 110-gr stepping out at 1300-fps with very low flash and recoil out of a 4" revolver. They also have a much less fierce bark than 110-gr .357 magnums.

(edited: to add) WWB ammo has a pretty bad reputation for high flash powders. And the Federal PD357HS2H 130-gr Hydrashok load is another consideration, with very low flash and advertised Low Recoil powders. I don't know how much lower recoil because they still are humming at 1400 fps.

 

[Marshall]

I use 158gr Speer GDHP's and 145gr Win Silvertips out my S&W Model 13 4" HB.

 

[cookekdjr]

I would agree that the FBI load would be tops for this. 158gr LSWCHP.
I'd also recommend any reliable 158gr +p load, be it SWC, GDHP, FMJ, SJSP, etc. The FBI load expands very little. Its the great penetration in a low-recoil package that makes this load so effective.
-David