Which Semi-auto Defense rifle?

[Northslope Nimrod]

1) Which semi-auto rifle is best for defense and for value? (Assault Rifle type....I know that is politically wrong...but I'm not sure of the proper reference). Won't AR-15's and Mini-14's have similar balistics given the same 223 caliber? Are Mini-14's still considered a viable option? They seem to be less $$$. If I want capability for long range shots...what caliber should I lean toward? I want to stick with a common caliber so ammo is plentiful. Should I wait until the new 6.8 becomes popular/militarized?
2) What rifle would you recommend for sniper capabilities (long range). Also which caliber? BUT exclude the .50 caliber and .338.

 

[Dave R]

An AR is probably your best all-around bet, based on what you describe. Its more accurate than the Mini. Its decent for long range (within the limits of the .223 round.) Long-range shooters do use .223...

The ammo is common and inexpensive.

And there are lots of options available for it, including uppers in different calibers, giving you a lot more flexibility.

The other options would involve a move .308, which is the 'other' common, inexpensive round. That would mean going to a FAL-type rifle. Which, oddly enough, may be a bit cheaper than an AR...

 

[artherd]

1) AR-15. The mini will do, but will generally be less accurate, and highcaps are hard to find.

2) Remington 700 bolt-action in .308Win, with Leupold or Nightforce scope. Preferably in the AI AICS stock, which is not suseptible to bedding problems.

(or my Armalite AR-30 in .338 Lapua Mag, or my Barrett M82-A1 in .50BMG

 

[357wheelgunner]

1. Mini 14s are great rifles. Very durable and reliable. I had one that would group under 2" at 100 yards with the right ammo. They do get inaccurate but only after the barrel heats up. Great rifle for a marksman, but not a good ".223 bullet-hose". If you can't solve a problem with 10 rounds from a rifle, you need to be running as fast as you can in the other direction. If you want to spray and miss 30+ times get an AR15, that is what everyone else does......

If you want a cheaper gun/ammo combo try an AK-47 clone, the ammo is much cheaper than .223 as well as the magazines. I had a Romanian SAR-1 that would bust a milk jug all day at 100 yards. the gun was $300 new, the magazines were $10 a piece and ammo for $99/1000 if you can find a deal. That rifle never jammed, pity I sold it. It was sold due to a crappy finish, but it was an awesome shooter.

2. Same as Atherd, he hit it right on the head. Get the Rem. 700 in .308 with a nice piece of glass.

3. Rem. 870 12 gauge, prefferably a police magnum. The quality is far superior to an 870 express model. Everyone needs a shotgun, and it does not getmuch better than a remington 870 (unless you are a lefty which means a mossy). The shotgun will not cause hearing damage if fired in a house the same way a rifle will (still hurt though). If your purpose is home defense get the shotgun and train with it. You will probably never need to use the rifle for SD (made for long range) but shotguns are great at close range

 

[nipprdog]

I know that is politically wrong...but I'm not sure of the proper reference

Homeland defense rifle.

 

[Mannlicher]

For close work, its darn hard to beat a good AR. Colt, Bushmaster, Armalite, Rock River and others make good ones.

If the longer range appeals to you, then I think highly of my M1A. Set up right, they will shoot with a bolt gun all day long, and they are a LOT more fun

 

[DMK]

I've got SKS, an AK, a FAL, a Garand and a couple ARs that I built myself. My favorite all around target, plinking, home defense rifle is my M16A4 style AR.

The Russian guns are cheap to shoot, really tough and probably wouldn't jam if you threw mud in them, but they aren't very accurate (a mini-14 would probably shoot better) and let's face it, I baby my guns. I don't need an rifle that will keep shooting with no maintenance. I always take care of my guns.

The FAL is really cool and it is a very powerful weapon. There's a lot of firepower in a .308 rifle with a 20 round mag. This thing will chew up cement blocks without breaking a sweat. However, it's not extremely accurate either and it's kinda heavy. Really fun though!

The Garand is a tack driver, especially with match ammo. I had this one rebuilt and converted to .308 for a sizeable sum. I love this rifle. However, .308 really is overkill for any serious social use in my area of the country. I do love having these battle rifles in my safe for "just in case" though.

The ARs are the most accurate and the most fun. They are light, handy, easy to shoot and obviously adequite for self defense. The military and police have both been using 5.56 rifles for decades. As an added bonus, the AR's modularity lets you take your basic rifle and turn it into anything from a .22LR plinker to a 9mm carbine to a handy .223 carbine to a long range SPR by just swapping uppers. I have a dedicated .22LR upper for mine that I use to practice in my back yard. On this upper here, I have an Armalite scope mount that I can swap onto the rail in place of the carry handle. I can shoot a while with open sights, then swap on the scope to shoot with optics a while, then swap back. All without losing zero. This rifle is the king of versatility.

 

[hillbilly]

You can easily get an SKS and 1000 rounds of ammo for $250 or less.

If you shop real hard, you can get an SKS and 1000 rounds of ammo for like $160.

hillbilly

 

[NMshooter]

What is your budget?

 

[student]

What kind of defense are you talking about?? The hypothetical, out of your house, shooting bad guys at long ranges, playing sniper, makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside like you can take on the world type semi-auto rifle? If so then I agree with the AR-15, mini-14, Su-16, AR-180B, Sar-3 types for .223. AK types for 7.62x39. Any good bolt action dedicated military rifle (mosin, enfield, mausers, etc) or M1A, DSA-FAL, Rem-700 etc.. for long range and high penetration. However, you said defense and that would likely suggest in the house guns. I like my hearing the way it is so I wouldn't enjoy firing any of the above indoors (some might even set your house on fire ). For that many would suggest the shotgun, but my preference is the pistol caliber carbine, typically good out to 150yds, could be lever action or semi-auto. Several to choose from. Bottom line is what you want to spend and what you plan on doing with it.

 

[Northslope Nimrod]

I'd like to keep it under $600. I DO want accuracy. I think I would go crazy with a gun that couldn't keep 4" shots at 100 yards.
On the long range rifle... Garands, can I find them cheap?
Also, I already have a Remington 700 30-06. Can they be loaded to compete with the .308 on distance shots?

 

[NMshooter]

If you reload the .30'06 can come close to .300 Win mag.

Be careful working up heavy loads, though.

For $600 or less in .223 I would look around for a used AR or anything else that caught my eye.

In 7.62x39 I would find out how much I could get an Arsenal AK for locally.

In .308 I would save my money, but if you are mechanically inclined you might consider building a FAL. All the good deals on parts are a thing of the past, though.

 

[ocabj]

On the long range rifle... Garands, can I find them cheap?

$300-$500 from the CMP depending on grade.

Also, I already have a Remington 700 30-06. Can they be loaded to compete with the .308 on distance shots?

Yes. .30-06 is ballistically similar to the .308. The .30-06 is perfectly fine for 1000 yard shooting.

 

[student]

Ar-15 might be tough for less than 600$, maybe used, but likely the best accuracy of the bunch, read up on the others. That said my mini can keep it under 3 inches, unless I try the bullet hose technique.
Get a garand from CMP (Civilian marksmanship program, not very complicated anymore to qualify), I just did and I love it. Priced from 300-500$, no FFL involvement. Would be a great companion to the 700 as is the same caliber, and could later rebarrel to .308 (just send to a qualified gunsmith). As to the 30.06 vs .308, apparently the 308 is more accurate due to smaller cartridge so less variation in powder distribution, but if you become a good enough shooter to tell the difference then you probably don't need me to answer these questions. Keep the 30.06 and don't worry about it.

 

[lycanthrope]

You can get a stripped lower for $90 and a full kit from Model 1 and come out with a complete AR for $515.

 

[ReadyontheRight]

Sounds to me like YOU need a Garand!

www.odcmp.com

Fulfilling the requirements is not all that bad. Just ask here if any of it confuses you. If you live near Ohio, you can even go pick one out for $500.

 

[artherd]

You CAN build an AR for less than $600, but you will be much happier with the one you build or buy for about a grand or so, as this will buy you all name brand Bushmaster/Armalite parts or the full gun. The very cheap AR stuff... well, I would rather trust my life to one of the ABCs.

 

[M2 Carbine]

I've got a lot of rifles that would do as a "defense rifle". Which one I'd want to use depends on what kind of "defense".
I'm not a real big fan of the AR and .223, even though I have 3, but I keep a 30 round magazine in my Bushmaster M4 and most things considered I'd consider it my all around defense rifle. ($750)

For a long range rifle I have a 30.06 Springfield 03A4.
$14.50 for the rifle, $20 for the stock and $30 for the scope, in 1962

 

[Northslope Nimrod]

M1 Garand v. Modern 30-06?

What would an M1 Garand have on a modern hunting rifle in a 30-06? I have a Remington 700 30-06? Of course, mine is bolt action, but absent that, would the Garand be better....and why? I only paid $240 for my Remington.
For short range...most people still recommending .223? Will the new 6.8 become popular....and be a better choice?

 

[M2 Carbine]

M1 Garand v. Modern 30-06?

It depends on the use.

I was issued a brand new International Harvester M1 in 1956 (USMC).
Our qualification was out to 500 yards and it was deadly at that distance but you had to work at it with iron sights.

The semi automatic rifle has it all over a bolt action in a "defense situation" but the bolt action (considering it will usually be scoped) is the long range tool.

The .223 and the 30.06?
I have both, 4 .223 and 4 30.06 including 2 M1 Garands.
For shooting something the .223 is OK but for destroying something the 30.06 is a good tool.

 

[Lonestar.45]

Semi-auto rifle for defense with capability for long shots.....and you've already got a bolt action 30-06...hmm....I think a Garand would be nice, since you could share loads with your bolt rifle.

That said, if I were getting a semi-auto rifle for defense, and I already had a bolt 30-06 for the long shots, I'd get something like an SKS, AK variant, or if I had the money, a nice AR. The thing about defense rifles is, I don't think you really need something for long shots. Most defense scenarios I can think of would entail 100yds or less, probably 20yds or less, in which case a nice shotgun can't be beat!

 

[ReadyontheRight]

What would an M1 Garand have on a modern hunting rifle in a 30-06?

-Self-loading
-8 shots at your disposal
-Faster reloads - your ability to reload quickly is limited only by how many sub $1 clips you have loaded up. With any other semi-auto, you are limited by how much you want to spend on expensive magazines. This also is a benefit of an SKS and stripper clips.
-Harder to break

A bolt action will be less picky with ammo, lighter, less likely to jam (not all that likely on a Garand), easier to clean (but a boresnake works great on a Garand), have the ability to mount a scope and be slightly less complicated to maintain. Also -- you already own one.

 

[Rebar]

Self defense?

If you shoot someone 100+ yards away, you're going to go to jail, plain and simple. At 100 feet, you're still most likely going to jail. Even if you're not charged or get through the trial, you're most likely never going to see that rifle again.

With that in mind, I chose the mini-14. At 100 feet and under it's plenty accurate enough, reliable, and if it's confiscated I'm not out all that much money.

 

[ReadyontheRight]

What would an M1 Garand have on a modern hunting rifle in a 30-06?

I forgot to add the best reason to own an M1 Garand and its biggest benefit over a hunting rifle:

You can shoot a Garand in competition.

You can use a Garand in any highpower or service rifle competition and there are a lot of John C. Garand matches popping up all over the country and at Camp Perry. Great practice and great fun.

I don't know of any matches that use a hunting rifle and I don't think your typical hunting rifle can hold up to shoot dozens or hundreds of rounds at a time accurately in a match.

 

[Gewehr98]

That doesn't sound right to me, either.

If I want capability for long range shots...what caliber should I lean toward?

"Long-range defense rifle" - sounds like you're asking for trouble. If you're engaging hostiles defensively at ranges that require the extra legs of a .30-06, then you've got bigger problems...