Which Semi-Auto Shotgun

[JohnBT]

So how does it handle? Is it quick enough for quail? What about rabbits. Does the fixed choke tolerate steel or Hevi-Shot loads for waterfowl?

Honestly, it's a rifle that shoots shotgun shells. I'm thinking it's the semi version of the Marlin bolt action shotgun - limited in its usefulness.

John

 

[Maverick223]

So how does it handle? Is it quick enough for quail? What about rabbits. Does the fixed choke tolerate steel or Hevi-Shot loads for waterfowl?

I assume that you are asking about the S12...I have never hunted with it, so my expertise is non-existent. But I can tell you that it handles well, but is a bit on the heavy side, like its derivative the AK. I do not think that it would be ideal for quick prey due to the sights, but like I said I have no experience trying it. Mine is simply a HD/range gun nothing more, and with my choice of sights (HK drum aperture sights) I know that it would not be ideal for quick game like waterfowl. The gun is what you make it (if converted), you can select components to your needs and specifications, but like you said still the usefulness is limited. However, the "options are limited" with any firearm.

 

[rbernie]

i just picked up a 1929 browning A5 LITE 12 GA FOR 300.00.SPENT ITS LIFE INA GUN CASE

You, sir, have impeccable taste. Well done.

 

[Pun1sher]

Another vote for the Saiga here. In addition to all the good reviews, and the joy of handling it, it just plain looks cool The 10 round clips don't hurt either.
Oh yeah, it's pretty affordable too, since I last checked. If you want something a little cheaper, but still reliable, go with the lower end Mossberg or Remington.

 

[6x6pinz]

So how does it handle? Is it quick enough for quail? What about rabbits. Does the fixed choke tolerate steel or Hevi-Shot loads for waterfowl?

Honestly, it's a rifle that shoots shotgun shells. I'm thinking it's the semi version of the Marlin bolt action shotgun - limited in its usefulness.

John/QUOTE]

I use my S12 for waterfowl about 30 to 40 days, which is about half the time I spend out in the field chasing waterfowl. The saiga has never let me down, more than I can say for some of my buddies other autos. I have never understood the magazine change out complaint. When birds get shot at they generally leave except the ones dropped of course. This gives plenty of time to change magazines before the next set of birds. I don't think the saiga is the best for everyone but it works very well for me, which is important to me.
As for rabbit, dove and quail I prefer one of my 410's which includes a saiga 410.
The saiga shotguns seem to swing very easy and with the heavier barrel end seem to take less effort to follow through with your shot.
If I were to use a shotgun for HD it would be my modified saiga 20, but that is not likely.

Some great choices listed in the previous post. Just shows you that you will have to get out and shoot as many as possible to make an informed decision, that is the fun part

 

[berettashotgun]

I'd never purchase the S&W or Mossberg, own an 11-87 & SX2, and although I like the Remington and Winchester products - I'd get a Beretta.

Every time and anytime I will chose a Beretta semi over the others.

A Franchi 720 seems to be a decent shotgun, but I haven't shot my 612 or 620 yet. (same workings)

Remington 11-87: I dove hunt with a 1100 sporting 28. I love that shotgun - my boy shot skeet with the 11-87 skeet model.
He shot great until he found out what panties were covering up he is making a full recovery-now that my granddaughter is approaching 2.
Those o-rings will let you down at the worst time. They did me. and my son.

Winchester SX2: I like this shotgun alot. Mine has never missed a turkey - got a double by accident. It just kicks like a mule, my 10ga gold is a cream puff compared to the SX2.

 

[JohnBT]

"I use my S12 for waterfowl about 30 to 40 days"

I'm curious what choke and non-toxic ammo combination you would recommend for hunting ducks in the U.S. Which barrel/choke are you using?

I'm really curious about how a U.S. duck hunter would plug the gun/magazine to the legal limit of 3 shots total. The smallest magazine I see on the Saiga site is a 5-shot.

John

P.S. - edited to add: I finally found a 2-shot mag on the Saiga site using the 5-shot mag link. U.S. made by SureFire Gun Mags LLC and only $42 plus shipping.

 

[6x6pinz]

I use the polychoke on the 22" barrel. hoke setting depends on the way the birds are acting and if they are decoying well. Nice thing about the polychoke, you can adjust it with just a simple twist. I have been using winchester xpert steel and start the season with 4 shot, as a rule of thumb. I purchased some plugs made by a guy on the saiga12 forum. I have 5 mags that are plugged all the time and use regular 5 rounders when not hunting migratory birds. There are some two round mags available from a few sources. AGP had them in the case the last time I was there. I prefer the 5 rounders plugged as they are easier to "rock and lock" with gloves on. Carry a few in a fanny pack and you can change them out even if they are not emptied, then fill them while waiting for the next flight. I have become accustomed to reloading them while they are in the fanny pack with one hand. If you take 5 mags (four in the pack and one in the SG) you have essentially 11 rounds at the ready. With a limit of 7 birds (here at least) you don't have to refill the mags very often.
Again the only problem I have with the S12's is the lack of ability to handle the 3 1/2" rounds. I find these very helpful when hunting geese. Seems the shots on geese are a little longer and take a bit more punch. Some of my hunting buddies carry pump 10ga if the geese are known to be in the area. This may vary depending on where you hunt. AZ can be hard to find duck and even harder to find geese. This year the flight did not hit here until well after the season was closed I only managed to bag 105 birds and 1 goose, very slow year.

 

[Jed Carter]

If you could find the SX2 at your price point the FN built semi is the one, but for the price point or below the Mossberg 930 will be easier to locate. My vote for PRICE...Mossberg 930

 

[doubleh]

I voted for the 11-87. Wouldn't be anything wrong with an 1100 either. An 11-87 in 20 ga. is my dove and quail gun and also my "sits behind the bedroom door" gun.

 

[JohnBT]

"the lack of ability to handle the 3 1/2" rounds"

Wouldn't bother me, I use 2.75" and 3" Hevi-Shot.

John

 

[JoshRushing]

CZ...................

 

[Colton White]

11-87 wont let u down

 

[berettashotgun]

Has anyone EVER put an honest 10K thru a saiga? I think my trigger finger would be shredded.
I picked up a couple of the saiga 410's a few years back and they are a hoot, but under no circumstances would I ever think about using one (12 or 20ga) for clays or dove.
Way too much work to retrain myself to reload while jumping a fence
They are cool, ugly and socially unnerving...... but I cannot seem to feel safe in them.
Most people shoot a few hundred rounds thru something and swear it handled "4-5 thousand rounds without a glitch" seen my own brother do this. When I pointed out we only went thru 2 flats - together! - he realized HE couldn't handle that kinda round count.

 

[Maverick223]

Has anyone EVER put an honest 10K thru a saiga?

Not I...I have put a few hundred of low-brass, and a few dozen buck and slugs. Done great since tinkering with it to get it reliable (not good with light loads from factory).

 

[6x6pinz]

The count on my S12 is high but I don't think anywhere near 10K although I shoot it regularly and can easily go through 500 rounds in an afternoon in the desert. My S410 has more rounds than my S12 but I have owned my S410 a lot longer than my S12. I can however say that I have well over 10K in a 1980 Remington 870 police riot shotgun. I used to shoot that one 3 to 4 times a week even wore out one of my reloaders trying to keep it fed.
In the olden days 5000 rounds only meant 10 cases an easy task to use that many in less than a year.

 

[berettashotgun]

As high as the shotguns are - they still a a small part of the overall price after you figure in overpriced ammo.
Guns went up and ammo matched it :banghead:

 

[lipadj46]

Whis is this repeated so often? I have an s12, and I love it, but it isn't exactly reliable. I've had more ftf's and fte's in that shotgun than any other firearm I own. (and yes, I know all about the gas settings)

Saigas were designed to fire a heavy load with military and police applications in mind. With high brass buck or slugs or any magnum rounds you will be hard pressed to make a S12 fail. With a little work they can be made dead reliable with even the winchester bulk pack but this involves some polishing of internal parts and making sure your gas ports are free of crud.

They are russian made so the end user should expect a to do a little finishing work to get them 100% reliable. I think many people just expect them to work 100% out of the box and that is not a reality with these shotguns. Some say they are not worth the $550 or so they are getting these days but that is up to the market. Personally I think they make a fine deer and turkey gun and can be used for duck and wing shooting but are not an ideal choice for those.

 

[Maverick223]

I agree, mine was (and still is) 100% with buck and slug (though only about 100-150), but about 60% with Winchester Bulk Bird out of the box. I have had no FTFs since I got it, only FTEs, and those have ceased since handfitting and drilling a couple new holes.

 

[6x6pinz]

how old are your Saigas? Mine has always fed the lightest loads I could put through it. I of course fired a few hundred rounds of high brass field loads first, to loosen things up. I use mine for weekend clay shooting (ultra light loads) to heavy duck/goose loads with no failures of any kind. The only thing I have not been able to do with mine is bump fire it. For the record it came with three gas port holes.

Still in all a great shotgun but there are certainly better shotguns out there.

 

[Maverick223]

how old are your Saigas?

Mine is about 6mo. old.

The only thing I have not been able to do with mine is bump fire it. For the record it came with three gas port holes.

Mine came with two partially blocked holes (now has 4), and I also cannot bump-fire mine due to poor cycling when trying to bump-fire.

 

[6x6pinz]

I wonder if some of the issues I read about with the Saigas are the newer ones. I picked up my S410 at a gun show from a dealer who was happy to get rid of it. No one showed any interest in it as they had never heard or seen one before. As soon as the S12 became available I picked up mine then followed by the S20. My 20 being the newest of my Saigas is the most temperamental. It does not like the lighter loads in either length but shoot the heavy stuff just fine. Funny thing is it is the one that has had the most work done to it. The others are stock except the 12 has a polychoke.
Several of my friends have the S12's and I don't think they have ever fired anything but ultra light 8 shot through theirs. At first a couple of them would not completely eject the shells but now they all run perfectly.
I guess it is what we have come to expect from the russian mass produced firearms. They all work great, some require a little clean up.

 

[Maverick223]

I wonder if some of the issues I read about with the Saigas are the newer ones.

I believe so...if you can't keep up with production...speed up, you don't need that extra hole.

The others are stock except the 12 has a polychoke.

Do you like the polychoke? I am considering one for my S12, but have heard good and bad. Is it the vented one, and if so is it markedly louder than stock?

 

[6x6pinz]

I use the vented version. I have never noticed any noise change. I have also heard the same complaints about the polychokes, not only for the saiga but in general. Having used them on a few shotguns I am assuming those who have trouble did not read the directions for installing the units. I would guess that once the polychoke arrived they played with it, adjusted it off the barrel. When the polychoke arrives read the directions and install it then you can adjust it all you want. The only problem I had with my polychoke was last year after a hard rainy duck hunting weekend. I did not clean up the shotgun right away when I got home so the next time I went out the internals had rusted. It took a bit of WD to get them freed up but all is good again. I don't think I can blame polychoke for my lack of cleaning. From that same weekend you should see what a buddie Ruger red label looks like. What a rust bucket.

 

[Maverick223]

I have never noticed any noise change.

Thanks for the info, looks like I will be getting the vented version as well. I am not concerned with the looks because I never considered the Saiga to be a showpiece anyway...it just works.