Which set of 223 dies ?

[Hondo 60]

I've even had lubed ones get stuck.

Yup, me too.
It was stuck so bad that Lee just pitched the die & sent a brand new one.

 

[armoredman]

I just resized/trimmed/reprimed 60 .223 brass with Lee tools, including the Zip Trim. Beats the heck out of the HAND trimming I used to do - ouch!
I've never had a case get stuck - maybe I use too much lube. Figure it's cheap.

 

[dbarnhart]

You are going to get a number of answers approximately equal to the number of people who respond on this thread

I'm now using a Hornaday sizer because I was not able to get enough shoulder setback using my RCBS sizer die. (I use a Dillon case gage to measure shoulder setback).

Either the Hornady or RCBS seater die work fine for me. I back the crimper all the way out and use a separate Lee Factory Crimp Die.

 

[oldreloader]

I have dies from several makers an Lee works as well for me as any, I have two sets of 223 dies, Lee and Lyman. the Lee are just as good if not a bit better, Most of the dies I buy now are Lee.

 

[Slamfire]

You will never get the case shoulder between the “Go” and “No Go” by following the typical “size to the shell holder and add a quarter turn” instructions found with sizing dies. You must use a case gage to verify properly sized length.

"Never" is a mighty long time. I guess it has expired though since I've yet to have a rifle fail to go to battery on one of my .223 reloads (shooting them in 4 different .223 and 5.56 ARs) and I don't own a small base die. If your rifle needs one, fine, but most don't.

Never is a long time, but it always takes less time to type “never” than go into some long explanation over gaging, tolerance stackup, probability and randomness.

You have not said whether you use case gages to set up your dies, but I am going assume you don’t.

There is enough inertia force in a AR bolt carrier to crush fit a slightly over long brass case. I think steel cases is another matter. Bolt gun cocking cams are powerful enough to crush fit a case to the chamber, but these cases can only be a little long, or little fat.

There are threads where people, following the die instructions, can’t get the bolt closed because the case is too long.

Mike Venturino, the gunwriter, is one of those who for years has stated in print, that small base sizing dies are not needed for gas guns. I find it humorous that in the July 2012 of Guns his reloads were so fat and so long, that with the AR10 and M1a he was testing, he could not get the bolt closed. He could not fire the rounds out because he could not get the bolts into battery, and the rounds were so jammed in, he had to take these rifles out back, with live rounds in the chamber, and beat the bolts open with scrap lumber, to remove the cases.

Ha, ha, poetic justice.

 

[ranger335v]

"It was stuck so bad that Lee just pitched the die & sent a brand new one."

Naw. It's just common practice to toss the die because it's cheaper to replace it than have an employee spend 15 minutes to remove the stuck case.

 

[helotaxi]

For the record I don't use case gage and I could ride the bolt forward and press it home with my thumb on the forward assist if I wanted to. A case crammed into the chamber is a PITA to extract and I can easily eject live rounds. Bottom line, my cartridges all are loaded to SAAMI spec without a case gage or small base die and I've achieved the "impossible" feat with 3 different dies from 3 different manufacturers, none of them small base. I've likewise loaded .300BLK, 6x45, 6.8SPC and .204 Ruger for ARs without a single oversized cartridge. The 6.8s are loaded with a small base die because that was all that was available when I needed dies. I plan to dump it soon to save stress on the brass.

A small base die has exactly nothing to do with headspace (too long). If anything a small base die would result in a longer case since it squeezes the brass right at the web and that brass has to go somewhere. I'll reiterate, for 99% of the rifles out there, you do not need a small base die. If the bolt won't close on a round because it's too long a, small base die won't help there either. If you can't resize brass to the correct headspace using a regular die, you're doing something wrong be it set-up, improper lube or what-have-you.

I don't consider Mike Venturino an expert on anything other than vintage firearms.

 

[helotaxi]

Final note on small base dies: If your brass was fired in your gun they are totally pointless. The one time that small base dies are useful is if you have once fired brass that came from a machine gun range. The M240 and M60 are notorious for having loose chambers and leaving 7.62 brass "fat" in the head area and the M249 does the same with 5.56 brass. If you have unknown source once fired brass, sizing it with a small base die the first time to get it back in spec in the case head area would probably be a good idea. This holds true whether you're loading for a gas gun or any other action type.

 

[engineermike]

I bought some Lyman dies a while back and they seem to be easy to adjust and work fine. The two you mention will work fine too.

 

[targetshooter22]

Me, I'm a really big RCBS fan not because I can prove or think they are more precise, but because of customer service. On two separate occasions, with two separate dies (one 223 the other 243), I wrecked the deprimer rod. Both times I called customer service, told them exactly how my carelessness wrecked the parts, and they sent me replacements free of charge, no questions, just right to the warranty department. That means those 223 and 243 are the last ones I will ever own.

I'm sure others do that too, but I doubt LEE is one of them (I do own a few LEE dies too, haven't wrecked them yet) at their price point.

 

[zxcvbob]

The cheap Lee 2-die set (I think they call them "RGB") are just fine -- unless you need a small base die. Lee doesn't make a small base die.

 

[cacoltguy]

If you are full length resizing any die will do. I use RCBS with the expander ball removed and decap with a seperate die. Expander balls wreck havoc on case neck straightness. The Lee universal decapping die is cheap and does the job well. If you are neck sizing only I would go with one of the bushing type dies like the Redding. As far as bullet seating dies go I would spend the extra money and get either the Redding or Forster micrometer competition dies. Once you try them you will never look back. The micrometer dials just make life so much easier when it comes to adjusting seating depth (especially if you load different bullet types of the same caliber) The sliding sleeve also does a better job of holding the case perfectly straight as the bullet is seated. I've used both the Redding and Forster competition dies in .308 and prefer the Forster. The numbers on the micrometer are bigger and spaced further apart making it easier to read. The Forster is also less expensive than the Redding but bullet run-out is just as good when checked with my Sinclair concentricity gauge.

 

[FROGO207]

In 40+ years I have never needed anything but a standard set of 223 dies. I own both the RCBS and Lee RGB die sets. Both work fine for my use and FWIW I could buy 3 sets of the Lee RGB dies for the cost of a set of RCBS dies, besides then you have to add the shell holder with either set. The Lee standard ones come with the shell holder, a scoop, and load data besides for not much more. I use the Lee dies as the depriming rod will slide up if I get a piece of Berdan brass and not break like the RCBS ones will.