Which Sig P220 to buy?

[glockfbuff]

Here's the deal. I'm in the market for a new .45 and have decided on a Sig. I love the way they feel, shoot, and look. They just work for me. Problem is I'm not sure which one to get to start....yes, I'll probably end up with a few in the end, but only can buy one right now.

My first question is: Stainless or not? What are the benefits other than no finish to wear off and extra weight to help with recoil. Are there any others? I guess the weight could be a con as well as the much higher price...about $200 on the sites I've looked at online. So, worth it or not? Anyone that carries a P220ST I would love to hear from.

Second question is: Carry or full size? This will primarily be a CCW Every Day Carry gun as well as a night-stand gun for home defense. Leaning toward the full size as there is only a small difference in slide/frame length and price is almost the same on the sites I've looked at.

Third question: After spending all this money I'll need a great holster to haul this around in. Any suggestions would be very helpful. I was thinking about a Milt Sparks VMII. I don't mind the wait as I won't be able to purchase this gun for many months anyways. By the way, the P220 I've been considering is the Elite model in both the Carry and Full Size.

Last question: A lot of posts say to avoid the Sigs with internal extractors especially in the P220 models. How can you tell which type a model has? Is there an easy way to know what you're looking for? Thanks in advance for any help you can provide me!

 

[buenhec]

I have the 220-C3. It is my primary carry gun. Its a bit shorter so it does not poke out and just as accurate and easy to handle as any other 220. Check it out.

 

[1BLINDREF]

Welcome to THR

Congrats on choosing to buy a P220.

My first question is: Stainless or not? What are the benefits other than no finish to wear off and extra weight to help with recoil. Are there any others? I guess the weight could be a con as well as the much higher price...about $200 on the sites I've looked at online. So, worth it or not? Anyone that carries a P220ST I would love to hear from.

Since you say that it will be a CCW, I wouldn't go with a stainless steel frame. The difference in weight is very noticeable. I you are planning on carrying it for any length of time, I think you'll be sorry. I have a P220ST (old style without the tail) and I would not use it as a CCW because of the added weight.

Second question is: Carry or full size? This will primarily be a CCW Every Day Carry gun as well as a night-stand gun for home defense. Leaning toward the full size as there is only a small difference in slide/frame length and price is almost the same on the sites I've looked at.

That depends on how big you are and how you plan on carrying. If you are planning on carrying IWB, the P220 Carry would probably be more comfortable than a full size P220. There are some guys here that carry a full size Sig (P220 or P226) and they say that its not a problem, but YMMV. I only carry OWB and I don't have a problem concealing a full Sig.

Third question: After spending all this money I'll need a great holster to haul this around in. Any suggestions would be very helpful. I was thinking about a Milt Sparks VMII. I don't mind the wait as I won't be able to purchase this gun for many months anyways. By the way, the P220 I've been considering is the Elite model in both the Carry and Full Size.

I don't own a VMII, but I've read enough posts from guys that do, to tell you it's one of the best IWB holsters out today. There are also quite a few other IWB holsters that guys are happy with.

Last question: A lot of posts say to avoid the Sigs with internal extractors especially in the P220 models. How can you tell which type a model has? Is there an easy way to know what you're looking for? Thanks in advance for any help you can provide me!

OK - this question usually sparks some heated debate.

I own three P220's with the internal extractor. I've have never had any problems with any of them. I have combined,well over 2K rounds through them so far without even one single hiccup. That's using mostly Federal, Speer, and UMC ammo - both range FMJ range ammo and the good HPs.

That said, it is a documented fact that there are some problem P220 internal extractor Sigs out there. It sounds like you've done a search and read some of those threads.
Sig now makes the new P220's with the external extractor, so you don't have to worry about getting a bad internal extractor Sig.

It's easy to tell the difference. All you have to do is look at the slide behind the ejection port.

This is my P220ST with the internal extractor.



This is my P226ST with the external extractor.



My advice to you would be to buy one with the external extractor just to be sure you get a good one.

Lastly:

Problem is I'm not sure which one to get to start....yes, I'll probably end up with a few in the end, but only can buy one right now.

I'm up to 6 P220's and I always looking for more

 

[rellascout]

None of the above.....

Look around for a P245 stamped slide with a better reliable extractor. It is lighter and you will have a better chance of it working vs the newer Sig extractors on the P220. Even the new external extractor is having issues.....

No one needs a beavertail on a Sig P series

 

[brhodes]

The newer Sig extractor is having no issues for me. I'm over two thousands rounds now with zero failures of any kind on my new P220 Combat. Love that pistol...

 

[glockfbuff]

Thanks for the info!

Thanks for all the good information.... keep it coming! Pretty much decided against the stainless due to weight, but the price has something to do with it as well. Now I guess it's down to Carry of full Size.

Two more questions:

1. Is the finish on Sigs really that bad and how quickly will it honestly wear?
2. What do you all think of the factory night sights on the P220?

 

[SubSolar]

Factory 3 dot night sites on Sigs are great, you don't hear as many people swapping to aftermarket sites as say a Glock.

 

[9mmepiphany]

my answer to your questions would be much in line with 1BLINDREF.

i will add that if you have extractors problems, it is only made worst by the shorter slide of the Compact model

i also carry OWB (bad back), usually in a Comp-Tac adjustable cant paddle for CCW or a Blackhawk CQC w/Serpa lock for duty and teaching. if i were to pick an IWB holster, the VM II comes highly recommended by students

1. where did you hear that the finish was fragile?...this hasn't been my experience
2. the SigLites are as good a night-sight as others from factories...i prefer a single dot up front as oppsed to the three dots sets. i had a read bar added under te rear notch on my most often carried 220

 

[TIMC]

I went through the same delima as you. I ended up buying the full size P-220 elite and could not be happier. For a holster I went with the High Noon bare skin open top. It broke in quickly and is very comfortable. I like that it has a forward cant.

 

[Lonestar49]

Let me help you narrow it down more..

...

Glad you have decided on the lighter SIG P220, as it will serve you well, long, and much lighter during the ccw time.

My strong advise, having a P220R with internal extractor with no problems since NIB with over 1550 flawless rounds thus far would be go with both, the Sig P220 Carry model (I've shot both and IF I were ccw'ing, I'd go with the Carry model without doubt, as they both shoot the same IMO, along with, I'd go SAO, locked and cocked, for that same light, smooth, crisp, trigger pull from shot 1 thru 9..

Here's a comparison size wise (almost) comparing a full size P220 with P229's, almost, the same size, but have slightly smaller grips in length compared to P220 Carry's. Length is very close, if not, the same.

P229/40 P220R/45 P229R CT 9mm


Keep us posted and put up some pics in the "SIG's" thread by 1Blindref..


Ls


Ps.. I agree, no beaver-tail needed with any of the P220 or Carry models IMHO

 

[glockfbuff]

Information.....

1BLINDREF: Very nice collection there : ) How long did it take to get em all?

9MMEPIPHANY: I didn't mean to imply in my post that the finish was subpar on the Sigs. I've just heard that the finish on the top of the barrel wears off quickly within 4-500 shots. Is that true or overhyped? Just wonderin.

TIMC: You said you went with a Elite Carry.....that's stainless as well, right? Seems that way from your pic anyways. Did you buy it for CCW? If so, how heavy does it feel when you're carrying it and do you have any reservations about having gone with the ST over the regular model?

As for choosing the Elite, it wasn't for the beaver tail, even though I like the look and feel of it. It was for the SRT. I love that trigger. Just feel so slick and I really really like the extremely short reset. I was almost going to get the P220 base model and have the SRT put in at the Sig shop, but with shipping and costs, it's worth it to me to get it that way from the get go.

Once again, thanks to all those who have commented on this thread. Please keep the information coming. I'll be sure to post pics here when I make the decision and go get it : )

 

[TIMC]

TIMC: You said you went with a Elite Carry.....that's stainless as well, right? Seems that way from your pic anyways. Did you buy it for CCW? If so, how heavy does it feel when you're carrying it and do you have any reservations about having gone with the ST over the regular model?

Mine is not the carry model. The carry model has a 3.90" barrel, mine is 4.40" so it's a little longer but not much.

As far as carry what feels heavy to you might not be to me. I don't mind carrying it all day but then I am a fairly big guy and used to carrying steel framed 1911's for many years. The P-220 Elite ST doesn't feel any different to me. With the forward cant and high riding High Noon holster it is very comfortable even when sitting down.

 

[Lonestar49]

9MMEPIPHANY: I didn't mean to imply in my post that the finish was sub par on the Sigs. I've just heard that the finish on the top of the barrel wears off quickly within 4-500 shots. Is that true or over-hyped? Just wondering.

Edit: brain-fart moment: dunno why, but "the barrel" went over my head and I thought OP was asking about wear on the top of the slide.. NOT

So, as mentioned, correctly, Sig smileys on the "barrel" occur quickly, but keep the exterior of the "barrel" well oiled per shoot, and they will go on and on and on and smile a bit more per 1000 rounds.. Just happy smiles of ongoing, 100%, flawless shooting smiling back at ya..

Now: about the top of the slide..

Not true, shot-count wise, as you can hardly see, but my 229/40 has over 3000 rounds and no top wear, my 220/45 has some 1550 rounds and no top wear, and my 229/9mm has some 4550 rounds and no top wear..

I use EEZOX to coat and penetrate all metal surfaces of my guns to protect them from any rust, stored in the safe waiting for rotation or daily ccw use.

I think the most top wear, and side wear you'll get is in the choice of what type holster you get.. Leather, being stiff, hard plastic-mold being unforgiving as well..

But, it will all come down to what holster works best for comfort and reducing any printing as much as possible in the end..

I use neither mentioned.. rather, nothing (for ccw use) but neoprene Uncle Mike's IWB clip ons.. work great for me and are closed-ended, breath, yet do not let sweat or moisture in, and do not mark up, put wear, on any of my ccw guns.

They don't work for everyone, YMMV, but for 14 bucks, (no break in needed) they're worth it for at least keeping one's gun on a night stand or table or in a safe, in my case, for protection, as I stack one gun on top of another, with my small safe and 6 guns.. and no rust and no scratches.

Luck,


Ls

 

[crebralfix]

1) Non-stainless for carry
2) Kydex or aluminum reinforced belt (Comp-Tac has some)
3) Solid holster such as a Milt Sparks VM-2
4) Dual AND single magazine holder

Don't worry about the barrel finish. It just wears off. I have yet to see rust there. Worry more about the slide, but simply rubbing grease (so the gun looks shiny) on it will help.

My old SIG P220s all had internal extractors...and so do my current ones. I have no qualms about them. However, test your gun to verify it functions. There should be no "break-in period" (which is really a debugging period). If it doesn't work out of the box, it's broken and needs to go back to SIG.

 

[rellascout]

The Sig smile will be present on any Sig within a few hundred rounds...no way to avoid it. Sigs are supposed to be run wet so it should never be an issue...

I do not mean to harp on it but the internal extractor on the stainless steel slide Sigs is a know problem.... The tolerance is too tight and if it is out of spec at all it will not function properly...

The failures will be anything from no extraction to not feeding the final round of every clip....

I know everyone will chime in " my P220 is great" but that does not mean there are not thousands of Sig out there that are out of spec and will fail.

Sig changed the design because it was a major issue. If you do the research you will find out the truth....

I personally would never buy anything but a carbon steel Sig prior to the Stainless slide and extractor problems.

 

[gunseller2]

Going by your handle I'll assume that you are more than familiar and have a bit of trigger time with Glocks as do I. I bought my second P220 (my first was a Browning BDA that I should not have parted with). I loved the gun, wasn't totally happy with the DA\SA trigger systems, but there was a bigger problem. After a lot of years and reps with 1911's and Glocks in other lives, I never quite got the de-cocking down solid. I am left handed, carry in front of my hip bone so the muzzle is pointed at plumbing that I am quite fond of. I also prefer one consistent trigger press. After re-holstering one time too many with the gun still cocked I traded my P220 for a P220R with a DAO trigger. It's the gun I carry most often. I would humbly recommend a P220 in DAO or SAO.

 

[9mmepiphany]

you know, if you have any reservations about the stainless slided 220s, there's nothing wrong with a folded slide model



but i do have alot of faith in the 220ST too...both of these were CPOs and cost about $600/each

 

[meef]

Okay, here's my favorite carry piece. The SAO model works great for me. get one, you'll love it.

Of course, that's my biased opinion speaking.

 

[1BLINDREF]

1. Is the finish on Sigs really that bad and how quickly will it honestly wear?

Like rellascout posted, the barrel wear on a Sig is nothing to worry about. It is referred to as "smilies" because the oval type of wear looks like a smile.

The knock against Sig finishes was mainly from the original (made in the 80's and 90's) finish. The standard factory finish (black) did not hold up very well. Holster wear happend pretty quickly.
This is a P226 ("KA" code 1990) that was a police trade in with typical finish and holster wear.



Sig had an optional finish called K-kote, but even it wasn't very durable.
This is a P220 ("KC" code 1992) with the K-kote finish.



The newer (milled slide) black finish is called Nitron. It holds up to wear much better than Sigs older finishes. This P229 is one of my CCWs. I also used it for IDPA (many holster and re-holstering in a leather holster). It has a TON of rounds through it and the finish still looks very good.



The other finish problems you've probably read about were on the CPO (certified pre-owned) Sigs that were sold a year or two ago. The finish on many of them was just flaking off. It was not the original finish that was applied to the guns when they were new that was the problem. It was the new finish that Sig applied to some of them when they refurbished the guns. I haven't seen to many posts recently about issues with the finishes on the latest batch of CPO's, so hopefully Sig has that straightend out.

2. What do you all think of the factory night sights on the P220?

I like them. I believe Sig is using Meprolights on their new ones.

1BLINDREF: Very nice collection there : ) How long did it take to get em all?

Thanks!
I bought my first P220 in 1995 and was hooked on them (and Sigs) ever since.

9mmepiphany:
you know, if you have any reservations about the stainless slided 220s, there's nothing wrong with a folded slide model

I couldn't agree more!
IMHO, The older stamped slide P220's were the finest Sigs made (modern day Sigs, that is. The P210's are the "Holy Grails").

You can find them used for anywhere from $400 - $600, depending on condition. That leaves you a bunch of extra $$$ for ammo when compared to the price of a new P220.

Check out the Sig Forum classifieds. You can usually find good deals there.
http://sigforum.com/eve/forums

 

[rbernie]

Frame? Alloy - the stainless is HEAVY.

Size? Full-size; I had a P245 and found little advantage to its shorter grip and disliked the smaller capacity magazines.

Holster? I have a VMII for some pistols, but most of my pistols get carried in CompTac paddle OWB holsters. I found little advantage to going IWB vs. OWB when using a cover garment (outer shirt) and the paddle was stable and easy to remove when needed.

 

[glockfbuff]

Choices.......

Well I've totally decided against the stainless models. Price and weight mainly being the reasons. It's between the P220 Elite and the P220 Elite Carry now.......

Is it really THAT much easier to conceal/carry the P220 Carry? By the way I'm 6'2", 200lbs, with a 34" waist. Not sure if that helps with the carry aspect or not.....

 

[9mmepiphany]

i've never seen any advantage to the Carry model, the biggest size factor in a handgun is the lenght of it's butt...YMMV

 

[glockfbuff]

Which one....

9mmepiphany

So in your opinion/experience, it's just as easy to carry for full size? I've almost decided on the full size...

 

[1BLINDREF]

Is it really THAT much easier to conceal/carry the P220 Carry? By the way I'm 6'2", 200lbs, with a 34" waist. Not sure if that helps with the carry aspect or not.....

I'm almost the same build as you (6'2" 215 lbs 36" waist (almost 34" ).
At your size, I don't think it really matters that much between the two, but I think if you are plannig on carrying IWB, the Carrys' shorter slide might be more comfortable when you are seated.
If you were going to carry OWB, I'd go with the full size. You are tall enough to wear a long shirt that would cover the bottom of your holster.

 

[Lonestar49]

Just when I get the answer, they change the question..lol

I'm almost the same build as you (6'2" 215 lbs 36" waist (almost 34" ).
At your size, I don't think it really matters that much between the two, but I think if you are planning on carrying IWB, the Carry's' shorter slide might be more comfortable when you are seated.
If you were going to carry OWB, I'd go with the full size. You are tall enough to wear a long shirt that would cover the bottom of your holster.

...

Couple of thoughts: The Carry is about 1/2" shorter in length, but the grips and mags and loads are the same for either gun in their length.

The real difference is in the thickness of the slides and the slight difference in total weight between the 2. The standard P220's slide is much thinner and as 1BR said, correctly, if carried in an OWB holster, covered by a shirt, jacket, etc. It has the advantage but, if IWB and, as 1BR mentioned, correctly, the smaller length of the Carry's slide will work better for ya when sitting..

I know, back and forth, but in the end, my bet is you'll own "both"..

Having a back-up gun is just good thinking, and a good feeling..

And as far as going with an internal, or external, extractor, I'd say the odds will be the same, 50/50, in that, you'll get a 100% working gun from NIB, as many of us have a/o a problem with either type, within the first 300 or so, rounds.

Either way, SIG will make it right, that I believe 100% but, from all the post I have read the last year, since I bought mine NIB, I'd say the count was 95% or better, that have not had any issue with their extractors, be them internal, or now, the newer models coming out with the external ones, and the problem-ones are way under 10%.. IMHO




Ls