Whitetail hunting 450 yards

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One of the messages that I see that gets repeated a lot on this forum is to get the best scope that you can. Using this philosophy I would recommend the Vortex Viper PST in a 4-16x50 setup. The scope does have an illuminated reticle, therefore check your laws about using one for hunting. The Viper HS model does not have an illuminated reticle.

The key here though is to practice as much as possible so you are comfortable taking an ethical shot. It's a simple concept on paper, but when you're in the field and that trophy buck is right at the edge of your limits are you able to hold yourself back when you know it's out of your limits? Or are you going to risk an unethical shot.
 
The set-up you have is more than adequate. I question if you can make the shots, not the gear. Start practicing. Get a 15" steel gong and hang it out at whatever range you choose. You'll know soon enough if you're hitting your target.

Myself, I prefer a scope in the 3.5-10 or 3.5 to 15 range with adjustable objective lens. The longest shot I have made was 525 yards with my Mark V in .257 Wea Mag. When hunting, I prefer to keep the scope set at 5X. After all, you will be shooting to center-of-mass on the deer, not target shooting.

Geno
 
If the OP has enough shooting AND hunting experience to make a clean shot on a live animal at 450 yards, then I doubt he would have asked the question about which rifle is better for the job.

No offense, but it's something I feel pretty strongly about. I live in an area has a lot of hunters who regularly make more difficult shots than they should and end up wounding a lot of animals. We'll find them on the farm, dying or dead from a lousy shot. Other farmers around us have seen the same problem.

It's not sporting or ethical to push the limits - there is a living thing on the other end that deserves to be killed cleanly. If you are at your limit, there is a good chance that when buck fever hits and your heart rate is up and you are breathing heavy, you'll pull the shot.

Have some respect for the deer as something other than a target.
 
A .308 zeroed at 100 yards is going to drop ~30-45 inches at 450 yards, and likely have less than 1000 ft-lb of energy.

The 270 WSM zeroed at 100 yards is going to drop ~17-25 inches at 450 yards and have well over 1000 ft-lb of energy
 
forindooruseonly - there is likely something to what you're saying about pushing the limits, but he's a year out from next season, and he wants to get his gear set up and practice with it. I can't see anything wrong with that.
 
Well it sounds like the OP has the perfect set up for making a long shot. If I could have an identical set up I'd give it a go too. I just don't have the skill to make a shot like that in the field, but from a known position with practice? I'd absolutely learn it and go for it.

You have plenty of time to practice and get your rifle and scope dialed in.

The only big complication you have to deal with is your exact distance. I am not familiar with a .270 but the arc on a 308 is getting pretty steep at 450 yards.

I just tried the Winchester Ballistics calculator and a 150 grain .308 round. At 425 yards you are 6 inches high of a zero at 450 yards and at 475 yards you are 11 inches low.

I would definitely go with a 6x20-40 scope to get as much magnification as possible. Also using a reticle that is graded or certainly other than a post and cross hairs type would be important. Leupold makes their 6x20-40 with a long range reticle. All you have to do is learn where it hits at each mark, dial in for 450 yards and have at it. The very slightest movement makes a major difference at that distance so given your set up I'd probably get a bench rest sled too.

I had a very good friend who was able to zap a prairie dog at 1000 yards witnessed, more than once. He used a .243, a 6x20-40 scope and a bench rest on a portable seat he made. I am not recommending a .243, you already have the right rifles, but it is definitely possible to do.
 
I have a field that I can see across a hollow from my deck that is 450 yards away.
Click to expand...

450 yards away at what point in the field? How big is the field? You may want to pre-plant visible paddles with known distances in your field for reference. Both the 270 & 308 will have a mild rainbow-like trajectory at those distances, but might be critical if your deer is at 410yds v 495yds or vice-versa.
 
gbran - more than "might" be critical, it is absolutely critical at those kinds of ranges to *know* your rifle, your load, your trajectory, and where the deer is. This kind of shot is do-able. It's all kinds of fun to shoot at long ranges, but when you add a deer as the target, you have to be sure that you aren't just throwing lead and a prayer down range.
 
Just because you can hit something doesn't mean the bullet will perform as intended when it gets there. The reason for the extra velocity of the magnum rifles is to raise the impact velocity at the extended ranges to get the desired bullet performance.Not just bullet drop per-se. 450yds will be pushing the minimum impact velocities for most big-game bullets from the .308. The .270wsm will be the logical choice with preference going to something like a Nosler or Hornady bonded plastic tipped bullet for better impact velocities. A typical quality 3-9 is more than enough scope. I hit a deer at 545yds earlier this season with my .260Rem. But, as point made above, I failed to find the deer, even though it was in the broad open on an airport. The 129gr Hornady PtSpt "Interlok" didn't hit enough solid bone to expand. (observed mid-lung impact on broadside deer. Wind according to airport automated observation system stated wind was "calm".

Windage will still be the "unknown" variable.

Lastly, is it legal to hunt over bait in your jurisdiction/area. In the northern portion of Georgia, it is NOT legal to hunt over bait. A conviction for such can get you up to 2yrs in prison and a $5,000.00 fine (recently made a misdemeanor of high and aggravated nature to take big-game over bait in areas where not allowed). The game hunted has to be at least 200yds from the baited area and said area out of sight from the hunter. That would rule out your 450yd shot from not being hunting over a baited area....
Just so you know.....
(btw, a gamewarden has already seen your post...... just be aware.... you ARE being watched....).
 
I suggest you zero @ 200 yards, and then set your scope marking to "0", and then shot at known distances @ 250, 300, 350, 400, 450, 500 yards, and write down the number of clicks for each distance, and tape it to your rifle's stock. Get a range finder, and then reference the chart you created.

What you also should do is set a shooting flag beside the feeder. That way you know what the wind speed is at the feeder's location. It is a simple calculation, but will assist you with your windage dope, and save that information as well during your practice runs.
 
http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=7841488&postcount=37
Click to expand...

Didn't know thehighroad.org was a place to make threats by law enforcement. Even if you are a Wildlife Officer.
Seems like you should just explain the law, and then let the person make their own choices, but threatening someone seems wrong even if you are law enforcement.


Rule 4. Spamming, trolling, flaming, and personal attacks are prohibited. You can disagree with other members, even vehemently, but it must be done in a well-mannered form. Attack the argument, not the arguer.

Moderator, is thehighroad.org a place where law enforcement can/should make threats? Is that what this sight is used for now?
 
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From the OP, it seems pretty clear he has a pretty good idea of hunting. I personally find the threats by the game warden over the line. You should know that laws vary significantly state to state. Twenty miles north of me in Michigan, it's legal to hunt over bait. Not here.

You know, it's amazing how many guys think it's absolutely impossible to make a 400 yard shot. I suspect many are the internet warriors that buy a 9mm pistol, an AK, or shortie AR and blast Winchester white box by the hundreds at pop cans 25 yards away.

I was on a PD hunt in Montana this past fall. Shots and hits with .22's at 100 and better were pretty common after a day or two. Takes practice. A prairie dog (smaller than the size of your foot) was toast if he was less than 300 yards or so and I had my Bushie AR.

My friend got his antelope at 347 yards, one shot with a 30-06. I got a 1,000 yard rangefinder for Christmas. Old one quit at 400. Not long enough.

Back years ago I routinely took ground hogs at 300+ with my 22-250 and cheapie 10x scope, and I was just a high school kid with factory ammo.

We got a life size cut-out of a buck just this past fall. For grins we set it up at 200 yards, lazered. My friend was shooting his muzzle loader and .44 mag rifle. Hit 3 for 3 in the kill zone. This was from a REALLY good rest at a known range

So yes, he said said he was gonna practice. I see it no more or less ethical than guys down south using beagles that blast away on running deer with buckshot.

And no, I'm far from the best shot in the world. But, I do actually shoot.
 
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Eb1, GG's error was in the old "assume" thing.

Hunting over bait is quite legal in many places, so I don't see the point in worrying about it. If a game warden wants to watch me kill a buck over bait, fine by me; he can bring the coffee and then help drag Bambi to the truck. :D Shucks, I can borrow his pen to fill out the tag...

Shooting from a porch deck? Think "benchrest at home" and it really isn't all that difficult a shot. I have a shooting table at my house for my 500-yard range, and doing the clang-and-bang isn't any big deal. Fun, though. :)

At 450, wind is the enemy, the major problem. If you know your trajectory, 450 is no big deal on a calm day.

So, back to the actual question: I'm guessing that the WSM would have less wind drift than the .308.

If the majority of one's experience is in the usual 200 yards or less, then a good bit of practice is needed before going on out into Ma Bell country. But if a person does indeed work on shots to four and five hundred yards, they are just not all that difficult--and as I said, wind is the main problem.

As far as the scope? Lordy, most any decent 3x9 would be plenty good. I found out that a 3x9 set on 3X was still plenty good to kill a buck DRT at 350, so I've not worried about all that magnification stuff except for prairie dogs. :D
 
I shot two does @ 300 yards with a .25-06 that had a Bushnell 3200 1.5x-4.5x by 32mm and the FireFly Reticle set to 4.5x.

It was the only scope I had to put on the rifle when I bought it, but it worked out fine. It now has a Bushnell 4200 3-9x40 with a fine reticle.
 
I have joked with my wife that I should just draw a chalk circle on the hill 200 yards out from the house, sight the rifle for that range and when the deer walks in the circle, just pull the trigger. This year, however, all the deer have been staying well within 50 yards of the house because that's where the water trough is. Go figure.
 
The 270 WSM would be better, but make no mistake about the 308's ability at that range. You are still very near 1500 ft lbs of energy with only 23" of drop with a 200 yard zero at 400. With a ballistic reticle scope the drop and energy is no problem. The only factor is wind.

I don't have numbers handy for a 270 WSM, but do for a 7mm Rem mag. Shooting 160's at 3000 fps the 7 mag will only have 6" less drop than a 308 shooting 165's. I'd bet there is very little difference between the 270 WSM and 7mm Rem mag trajectory.

For guys who know how to shoot 450 yards is not long range. Anyone with a fairly decent rifle and optics should be able to make a 300 yard shot look easy. Going to 400 or so only requires a bit more skill, and if the range is known, no special equipment. It is when you start getting to 500 and beyond that it requires specialized expensive equipment, lots of skill and a little luck.

If the OP puts in the time to practice, and is shooting at a known distance, this is entirely ethical and very doable with either gun.
 
Either rig is fully capable of making this shot, I've done quite a bit of long-range deer hunting and have done most of it with a 7mm-08. Others have pointed out some of the pitfalls, and there are some things to be aware of; finding the deer can indeed be more difficult than it would seem, and for good shot placement the range to the target must be known fairly precisely.

The bullet I've had the best success with from the 7mm-08 is the Hornady Interlock, don't know what happened GG but on broadside shots it has never failed to exit, and good shot placement put even large deer down almost DRT.

All that said, after a while this kind of hunting became unsatifactory to me, I much prefer the challenge of getting close.
 
You really do not need high magnification. For many years the military used only 10x fixed scopes for their snipers. I personally find that when shooting beyond 400 yds if I dial up the magnification all it does is amply my heartbeat, if it is a hot day it amplifies the heatwaves, if it is misty .... well you get my drift. We have land that allows us to shoot over a mile safely if need be and when I shoot at silhouettes my scope is usually dialed between 7x and 10x. I have a 4x16x42 sightron and a monarch 2.5 x 10. The extra power from the sightron is to help me identify deer, antlers, and such but for shooting it has never been above 10x regardless of the distance, but regularly they are usually around 4x to 6x power. This gives me the clearest picture without magnifiying my heartbeat or atmospheric conditions.
 
Sniping deer at that range is fun, I agree its not hunting. Use the flatest shooter you got, with as much scope as you want, and as you said, practice:) Took a few does this fall at 300+ yards, dropped in 25yrds, used my 22-250......FUN!
 
Thanks for all the input!!! Flags are a good idea. I am going to do lots of practice before I would be confident enough to shoot a deer a 450 yards. I have been hunting deer for 30 years probably have taken 75 and have only lost 1. Funny how its the 1 you couldn't find that you remember. I would never take a hail Mary shot at a deer. It is legal to hunt by a corn feeder here in Arkansas.
 
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