Whitetail hunting 450 yards

[VA27]

Whitetail deer at 450 yards? The deer can't see, smell or hear you. That's not hunting, that's shooting.

I have a friend who's 6' 4" and weighs over 350lbs. This last season he took a nice Antelope with his recurve bow at about 35yds. THAT's hunting. (The boy does have stealth, yes he does!)

 

[benzy2]

I think the best answer is to get some ammo you want to hunt with and start getting lead in the air at targets that aren't alive. Once you feel comfortable with one of the two rifles you won't have to ask which to use. It's a scary question to hear. It really is one of those "if you have to ask" type questions. Go look at a few tables to get the basics down for each option, pick the one that seems better and get practicing. A 450 yard shot isn't impossible as some want to make it sound but it's also not as easy as others imply. Again, get lead in the air with the one that shoots best and see where your at. Any quality scope with mid power magnification should be plenty.

 

[CollinLeon]

Whitetail deer at 450 yards? The deer can't see, smell or hear you. That's not hunting, that's shooting.

I have a friend who's 6' 4" and weighs over 350lbs. This last season he took a nice Antelope with his recurve bow at about 35yds. THAT's hunting. (The boy does have stealth, yes he does!)

Well, one could argue that training deer to come to a deer feeder each day of the year and then shooting them from the back porch when they do it during deer season is not hunting, but rather "harvesting"... Not that there is anything wrong with it... It's just not what we used to call "hunting" back when we were young... On the other hand, your BBQ pit is not going to know the difference between either way of acquiring that venison...

 

[Arkansas Paul]

i have to be honest with you, that sounds like being lazy....not hunting. to each his own i suppose.

I have to be honest with you, that sounds like an incredibly awesome easy way of eating venison to me. I've eaten deer that were shot by my dad from his patio door and I couldn't tell any difference in the taste whatsoever. Happy hunting.

Oh yeah, either of your rifles will do the trick, but I would go with the .270 WSM myself. The .308 will get the job done at that range, no doubt, but I'm sure the extra power won't be wasted and you won't have any doubts.

With a $1k budget for a scope, your options are great. A few of the guys at deer camp have Burris Illumiators that are just awesome. They're range finding and when you get them programmed for your ballistics they give you a point of aim after you range it. Guy has one on a 7mm STW and it's just incredible. They're just inside your price range. I don't know that I would buy one personally, but they're the cat's meow if you like long range shooting.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/56...fle-scope-4-12x-42mm-eliminator-reticle-matte

 

[Eb1]

Those scopes look like the cat's meow. I have seen videos of them. Nice!

The .270 WSM shooting a Nosler BT aimed using that scope would be a nice setup for killing deer @ 450 yards.

 

[Damon555]

Before buying anything try to make a 450 yard shot at a target where you intend to hunt...It will be a sobering experience.

 

[Tirod]

It's probably not going to be a question of if someone can hit a deer at that range. It's going to be whether the specific visibility is good enough that day.

Deer tend to be nocturnal when pressured, an open daylight shot at an exposed corn feeder during the legal season is a low percentage situation here in SW MO. With overcast, fog, haze, or simply being too dark, the number of times you actually get a shot isn't going to be very much.

Given the description of the terrain, I'd be inclined to set up alongside the depression so that I could look down it lengthwise, and be able to see the feeder in it. I suspect there's plenty of traffic in it as it offers a concealed path negotiating the open high ground in daylight.

 

[velvethunter]

If the scope on the 270wsm is of decent quality, that is plenty of scope for a 450 yard shot at something the size of a deer. And the wsm will have more enery at that range than the 308, so I feel it's the better choice. You have an advantage of practicing the exact shot you will be taking hundreds of times if needed, so if you practice enough this could be an ethical shot to take. The one thing that isn't talked about much though is knowing if you made a hit at these long ranges. Using the buddy system and having someone verifying if/where you hit the deer is a huge help.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

You can usually hear a bullet impact at anything over 300 yards...its an unmistakable sound once you're familiar with it...bullet impact on a deer sounds a lot like smacking hung up rug with a broom stick (such as beating the dust out of a rug).

 

[Float Pilot]

With the possible exception of Mountain Goat I try to never make a shot of a game animal past 300-350 yards. I personally do not believe that you can make a human kill via a follow-up shot even at that distance. While my rifles and (at times) I am able to make a longer range shots, I do not think it is ethical or sportsman like. .

bullet impact on a deer sounds a lot like smacking hung up rug with a broom stick (such as beating the dust out of a rug).

With slower bullets like the 45-70 or my black powder 50-90 loads you can hear the bullet impact at shorter ranges. I equate the sound of a 600 grain 50-90 bullet hitting a caribou at 200 yards to a sound similar to smacking a fat lady on the butt with a wet canoe paddle.

 

[Eb1]

Having a buddy over with a 60x or 80x spotting scope would be a good idea. They could tell you that you hit the deer good or not.

 

[CollinLeon]

With slower bullets like the 45-70 or my black powder 50-90 loads you can hear the bullet impact at shorter ranges. I equate the sound of a 600 grain 50-90 bullet hitting a caribou at 200 yards to a sound similar to smacking a fat lady on the butt with a wet canoe paddle.

Well, since you mention it, I have to ask how many fat ladies have you hit on the butt with a wet canoe paddle? Is that one of those Alaskan past times for those long winter nights?

Oh well... Consenting adults and all that, I guess... [dirty-old-man-grin]

 

[BGD]

Arkansas Paul - Did you look through the burris eliminator? I am wondering how good the glass is?

I will do some shooting this year and maybe try it next hunting season otherwise I will find a place to sit and harvest some venison

 

[6x6pinz]

like several have already said. 450yds is not hunting, it is just shooting.

My advice would be to learn how to hunt if that is what you want to do or learn how to long distance shoot if that is what you want to do. these are two different concepts that people keep trying to call one. It is sort of like saying skeet=trap=sporting clays. Same guns different activity.

Learn the difference and practice what you like.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

BGD, I did look through the scope and range some distant objects, but have not shot with one. The glass is just as crystal clear as the most expensive scopes I've looked through. The best of those being a Swarovski, Leupold VX3, and Nikon Monarch. It was right up there with them, IMO.

 

[War Eagle]

I shot a deer at 458 yards with this rifle last year. Dropped him where he stood. I knew my bullet speed, had a range finder, used a ballistic app on my phone, dialed-in my come up, pulled the trigger, and had deer for dinner.

With the modern advances in the firearms world, 400+ yards isn't some legendary distance anymore. Just put in the work at the range and you'll be surprised at what you and your rifle are capable of.


...

 

[mtnlvr]

Another shot out for the 270 WSM. I recently aquired one that I put a Leupold 4.5-14 x 50 LR BC. Up until Christmas Day I had shot about 60 rounds through it while working up a handload at the 100 yd range. Christmas Day I got out in a 8-9 mph quartering away cross wind with my Dad and set up a 300 yd and 450 yd target. I checked my card, dialed in 14 clicks of elevation to get out to 300 yds and fired 3. All on target. Then used the Boone and Crocket holdover at 450 yds, and fired 2 rounds. I would've been happy to hit the cardboard behind my target, instead I broke the bullseye!

The 270 WSM with good glass is a pretty awesome rifle. I'd definitely get a quality scope with finger adjustable windage and elevation. Resettable knobs are probably nice to have. There are mixed reviews with the Boone and Crocket type holdover reticals, but it seems to work well enough. The 30mm tube on a "Long Range" can let a little more light through. And then get to know the ammo with your rifle and where it hits at the different ranges.

 

[biggameballs]

Corn Feeder + 450 yards + Shooting off deck = NOT HUNTING

 

[Sam1911]

Can we PLEASE stop the silly symantics games?

The OP has described his setting and scenario and was asking for opinions on the best rifle and optics for his needs -- harvesting venison at a very specific range.

I don't think he or anyone else really gives one whisker off a rat's patootie whether you call it "hunting," "harvesting," "meat-plinking," "Bambi-Sniping," or Susan.

Why we get off on these irrelevant off-topic snits just escapes me.

 

[pwillie]

450 yds is a long shot for the average hunter,but with proper equipment,its not that hard. I loaned my son my model 70 Laredo 300,with a Swarovski 6X24X50 TDS. He was on a 530 yd field,and killed his deer with one shot at 450 yds.....he had never shot that rifle before...

 

[gamestalker]

I would drop a decent piece of Leupold glass on the .270 WSM, Barns 130 gr. BT, and a good slow burning powder to launch it, dead white tail.

Shooting from your pourch isn't lazy, it's fortunate and I envey you. I glass from a tripod and often get flack form other hunters who consider it to be cheating, because we use radios once we've picked something up on the glass a mile or so away.
Good luck!

 

[pwillie]

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[CollinLeon]

Back in my youth, deer hunting was walking through the woods, looking for signs, and then either tracking them or setting up a tree stand in the hope that the deer might come back that way on subsequent days... I'm not sure that we even *had* the deer corn feeders back then then... At least I don't remember them... Baiting deer by planing rye grass was considered very unsportsmanlike and in some places, it was even illegal... I sat in deer stands many days in the winter freezing my butt off and not seeing a single deer... Sometimes while stalking through the woods, a deer would bolt up in front of you and then you got to see if you could hit one on the run... Hell, I see more deer these days just sitting in my backyard watching them walk along my back fence line or along the levee in a single day that I did in multiple deer seasons back then... I've seen deer late at night walking down the middle of the street in the subdivision, pausing to go take a bite from the plants in one yard, going back to the middle of the street, walking a bit further, and then going to a house on the other side of the street to much on some of their ornamental plants... Kind of like a buffet line for deer... Of course these homeowners complain about the deer eating their ornamental plants... I don't plant those types of plants, so the deer leave me alone... I just have to laugh when one of these uptight HOA Nazis get all bent out of shape because the deer are eating the tasty plants that they leave out for them...

I don't see anything wrong with what the OP suggested doing... Is it hunting like I used to do in my youth? Nawh, but that doesn't make it wrong... I would probably call it just "harvesting" the deer... Nothing wrong with it at all...

 

[Davek1977]

I have no ethical issues with this if the shooter can consistently make the shot. I have read nothing that indicated he was going to attempt this as some sort of crap shoot, with no prep. If he practices and acquires the skills to do so, either cartridge can cleanly take whitetails at the ranges mentioned. What may be unethical for me to attempt may be completely ethical when attempted by someone with greater skill.

Whitetail deer at 450 yards? The deer can't see, smell or hear you. That's not hunting, that's shooting.

You are welcome to your personal opn ions and judgements. No one is asking that you shoot at deer at ranges beyond what you consider "hunting" or "sporting". One could argue that in nature, the best predators are those that are not seen, smelled, or heard until it was too late for the prey. What is man, but the ultimate predator. Personal ethics are just that...personal. If the shooter is up to the job, its NOT your place to determine whether his actions are considered "hunting". Some people stab pigs with knives and spears, and consider anything else unsporting. Some people hunt over feeders. Just because its not the way YOU choose to do things doesn't mean that its wrong or unsportsmanlike. I don't like to be judged on someone else's moral scale, especially if whatever I'm doing it legal and within reason.

 

[Lloyd Smale]

in a post like this you will allways get the neysayers who say its not ethical. Most of them are guys who just wont put the time in to practice to become good shots to begin with. I shoot probably a dozen deer a year at those ranges and it with a good gun and a good trigger man behind it its very doable. In my opinion though when the range gets out past 350 its time for a mag rifle. Not so much for the trajectory as even your 308 will hit deer out there if you know your gun and know your loads trajectory but the mags will just put down deer better at extended ranges. I like something like a 257 wby, 264mag, 7mag or a 300 mag for doing it. If its your land or you can get permission before season put out some targets at various ranges and see EXACTLY where your gun and load it hitting.