Whitney Revolvers

[kdave21]

So I just bought a Whitney .31 pocket percussion revolver and am extremely excited about it. The seller stated it is the second model and I am assuming by the serial number it is type 4. Yes I bought it on the internet, but the seller appears quite reputable and had very detailed pics, and cant wait till it gets here!

Here's what I would like to accomplish with this thread;

1) I would love to hear what Whitney revolvers other have, how they got em, what information they have on them, etc, Pics would be great! I will try to post pic of mine once it arrives.

2.) Like to test the waters and find out what information on these I am missing. It seems like it is hard to track down info on Whitneys. I have read there is a book by Claude Fuller on the topic, but dont know where to find a copy of it, I think it is about 60 years old, Im sure copies are pricey Does anyone know of an actual list that shows date of manufacture based on serial numbers more specific than what Flayderman provides? Any really good Whitney websites out there? Any historical figures who have been documented to carry Whitneys?

Can't wait to hear what others have to say about this topic.

 

[pohill]

I bought a Whitney last summer at the Kittery Trading Post in Kittery, Maine. They were selling it as a repro, but on the barrel top was E.Whitney. N.Haven. I pointed out that there were no Italian proofmarks of any kind and the salesman told me it was a "pre-Italian". Now I know the only company that made Whitney repros was Palmetto and they were not that great. Anyways I bought the gun for $350. I researched it and found it to be a Second Model, 3rd Type. serial number 13989. It has several inspector's marks, and the Whitney Eagle under the trigger guard. It's in excellent condition - I actually fired it last summer.
I have the Fuller book if you want me to look up info on your gun.


Before I cleaned it up:



(Whitney cylinder on right)

 

[pohill]

More info:
http://www.texasranger.org/dispatch/17/pages/Whitney_Revolver.htm

 

[kdave21]

htthttp://www.thehighroad.org/images/attach/jpg.gifp://www.thehighroad.org/images/attach/jpg.gif

 

[kdave21]

Nice piece Pohill! Looks like it has great finish and nice crisp edges. Really great looking, I love the symmetry and design of these models. Here's a couple of pics that the seller provided to me. I might post some more once I have it in my hands and can take my own pics. I bought this on Gunbroker.com. It was actually kind of a fluke, I have a Dutch Beaumont Vitali I am looking to sell and was browsing around seeing what they were going for. I saw this guy had one, then just out of curiosity looked to see what else he was selling. I saw this Whitney, and like so many romances, fell in love I guess. I paid $700, which I feel pretty good about after looking around and seeing what others are asking for pieces in lesser condition. I like this one cause it has pretty good cylinder scene and I have read that Whitney was not in the habit of deeply engraving there cylinders.

I found a copy of the Fuller book for $25. Do you think it is worth the money? Mine is in the 23,800 range. I'm one of those wierdos who doesnt like to publish exact serial numbers even though I know it makes no difference. If you need a more specific number let me know and I will send you a message.

Also, is there a recommended technique for cleaning any gunk around the nipples? I was thinking if it wasn't too heavy then I might just take a q-tip with some Eezox on it, swab it out, and leave it at that. I have never disassembled anything like this before.

 

[pohill]

Great Whitney you have there and what makes it great, other than the condition, is the cylinder scene. That is hard to find because, like you said, it was not a deep engraving. Great find at a great price (I've never seen the cylinder scene other than a pic online).
The Fuller book is a good book to have as part of a gun library ($25 is a good price). It might not have all the answers to questions concerning the gun but it's a great reference book (Whitney made alot of rifles, too and Fuller covers them in the book).
As far as cleaning the gun - if you don't intend to shoot it, I'd probably leave the nipples in place and give them a good cleaning, but I take my guns apart and clean the heck out of them, then put in some Bore Butter for a preservative. Have you ever taken a Remington replica cap and ball gun apart? The Remington and Whitney are very similiar (same with a Spiller & Burr).
This is a pic of my Whitney and a very old Spiller & Burr.

 

[pohill]

It looks like yours is a five-shot .31 caliber Pocket Model - Second Model, 3rd or 4th type (from Flaydermans). Mine is .36 caliber.

I'm looking through the Fuller book and there really isn't alot of info on these revolvers. I think Flayderman's has more, and you can probably Google for additional Whitney revolver info. If I find anything of value in this book I can copy it for you.
But, it is a good history reference book for all Whitney weapons.

 

[kdave21]

Thanks for the info. I'm glad to know that about the Fuller book, I might decide to wait on buying it if it has limited info on the Pocket models. You are correct, mine is a .31. Is the .36 what they call the "Navy type?" I saw a few Navy models on Antiquearmsinc.com That guy is pretty good to work with if you are ever in the market. This could be a dumb question, but is your spiller and burr a reproduction?

 

[pohill]

My Whitney is a Navy Model.
Yeah, I'd hold off on the Fuller book unless you're building a library, like I am. I have quite a few antique gun books that together provide alot of info but some, like the Fuller book, don't have that much on revolvers.
As far as the Spiller & Burr - that is not a dumb question at all. In fact, it's one I ask myself everytime I look at that gun - is it a replica or not?
The only markings on it are the letters "CSA" and the number 82 in several places. Now, of the known original Spiller & Burrs, #82 is missing. The list goes something like 80, 81, 83, etc.
I'm pretty sure, about 90% sure, that mine is a defarbed replica but whoever worked it over knew what he was doing and knew about the missing #82.
Hey, I can dream...
Here's some pics:

 

[Jim K]

There are no glaring indications that the S&B pictured is a repro, though it might be an out and out fake. If I owned it, I think I would have it professionally appraised.

One anomaly is that the "A" in "CSA" obviously was added later and is not part of the marking; another is the lack of periods in the "CS". The former could have been added later for some unknown reason, but the latter is something of a "killer" in that in the real markings, periods were used.

One thing to look for (and which usually won''t show up in pictures) is the twist in the cylinder iron to strengthen the cylinder. Presence of the twist would go a long way to indicate the gun is original as no repros were made with twisted iron cylinders.

Jim

 

[pohill]

I agree that the cylinder is the key - if it's iron, then it's not a repro. I read that the twists in the cylinder are not always visible. But the top strap looks a little too strong and thick for an original - I guess the topstraps took a beating because they were so thin.
Is there a way to tell iron from steel without destroying the cylinder?
I'm guessing that it's a really good fake, or a really good de-farbed job, but I don't want to be the guy who sold an original for peanuts.

 

[kdave21]

Here's another question guys...what does "defarbed" mean? Seen that around a bit, I'm guessing it just means to make something new look like something old but not sure... My .31 should be here any day now...

 

[kdave21]

All of this talk of reproductions and fakes got me to worrying several days ago...what if the one I bought online was somehow a reproduction!! I have no reason to believe that it was, no markings to indicate as such, but still a guy worries about paying original price for a non original piece. I decided not to worry about it as a) I dont think many scammers would pick a Whitney 5 shot to make money on, and b) I have not seen any reproductions of a 5 shot .31. I e-mailed Dixie gun works and they said they have never heard of a repro of this model. Also with the clyinder scene being as well defined as it is, I dont think I have anything to worry about...

 

[pohill]

De-farb means to remove all the markings and proofmarks and make the gun look old. I wonder how you "farb" a gun?
I dont think you have to worry at all about yours being a fake, especially with that cylinder scene.
Here's a pic of my Whitney being fired last summer.

 

[kdave21]

Well the ol' Whitney arrived yesterday. I told myself as I was unwrapping the box to keep my expectations low, cause often pictures of items look better than the real deal. Fortunately, I was not disappointed and the gun was exactly as described. I am very pleased, and feel fortunate to have found such a nice piece. I identified it as a second model, third type based on the markings and the fact that it was not a five-groove. I was a bit surprised at how small it was when it was in my hand, my wife said it was cute...ugh. Anyway I should be glad she endures my obsessions.

For the sake of research, I thought I would post some pics of the cylinder scene since it seems like good examples are pretty hard to come across, and thought some might enjoy seeing it. There is a shield with the words "Whitneyville" in a riband, there is another shield, a naval ship, a lion, and an eagle with spread wings. Dont have the greatest camera for close-ups but I think they came out alright considering...

Eventually I think I might buy or make a case for it, similar to what it may have come in back in the day. Does anyone know if Whitney made such cases like you see with Colt sometimes? I'm not that concerned with it being 100% historically accurate, just mainly curious.

 

[kdave21]

Heres an overall view of the gun...

 

[pohill]

Great gun. Excellent cylinder scene - I've never seen one that complete before.
Any inspector's marks? I thought I saw an anchor on mine but I don't think it was.
Have you taken the grips off? Do you plan to peek inside or leave it as it is?
If you take the trigger guard off, look for the Whitney Eagle.

.31 caliber guns are pretty small. I had a repro .31 Colt Baby Dragoon, and when I shot it I used O shot (.320).

I'll look throught some of the books I have and see if the Whitneys were cased.

 

[pohill]

I put my Whitney in the case of another gun to see how it would look - not bad.


This is the gun that belongs in the case:

 

[kdave21]

Thanks for checking the books on the case Pohill, I would be curious to know. I would think that buying a cased Whitney would be an option, but have no idea...
I havent noticed any inspector marks on it, but have not taken it apart at all yet. The only markings I have seen are the E. Whitney/New Haven on top of the barrel and the serial number on the loading lever (I think that is what it is called). I do plan on at least taking the grips off, not sure about the trigger gaurd, I suppose I might sometime-but because of my normal luck, I sometimes worry about taking things apart too much, seems like it is inevitable that something will break or get lost.... If there were inspector marks where would they be? Would there be inspector marks on a civilian gun? I have assumed that all these .31's were bought by private citizens, although surely many of them were carried by soldiers or used as a backup, etc.

 

[pohill]

If you've never taken a cap and ball revolver apart, I'd probably stop at the grips, maybe the trigger guard. I usually check to see what's going on inside as far as crap and crud that might be causing damage but, hey, the gun has made it this far the way it is. You definitely do not want to turn it into a paperweight by destroying some of its parts.
I only have a few originals - I have way too many repros. It's not a bad idea to pick up an inexpensive Remington (Pietta, Uberti) and play with it to see what makes these guns tick. I just sold a really good one for $140, and I've paid as little as $75 for a decent revolver.
Good point about your civilian model not having inspector's marks.

 

[kdave21]

Still subscribed to this thread Pohill? I took off my grips and looked inside- the serial number is handwritten in pencil and there is an "ML" also...its been a few weeks since I looked at it, but I think the ML was stamped in the wood, not handwritten. Assume its inspector marks, but didnt know if we knew who "ML" was. I.E. R.A.C. =Ronaldo Carr, etc.

ML on yours, or mean anything to you?