Who does revolver "combat" training?

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DB, when you say you need a big bore revolver for defense against bears in Alaska, do you mean the stopping power, the reliability, or both? IOW would a .50 caliber Desert Eagle or hot loaded 10 mm semi-auto not do the job? Are they not reliable enough?
 
I have an eagle, mines 44. It's a great target gun. Not so much for carry. For that weight I can carry my 460, 500 or any other revolver. It's also not terribly reliable. A 10mm is my choice for carry most of the time. I don't live in Alaska. If I did I would go with a bigger gun. A sig 220, glock 20 or many of the others are as reliable as any gun made.
Either way. If he likes a revolver, auto or pump shotgun it doesn't matter if you miss a 12 inch circle at 25 yards, you are going to miss a bears head. May as well have an airgun. Get the fundamentals first. The worst shooting gun I carry is a 329 pd . It can easily go 100% on an 8 inch target at 25 yards. The least accurate (or at least the hardest for me to shoot) that I own are a 21a beretta and a 25 jetfire. I would be shocked and disappointed if I missed a 12 inch target at 25 with either of those more than once in a magazine. And I'd consider myself intermediate as a shooter. Better than many but ive shot with folks who are so much better it's disturbing.
 
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I really don't want to dominate this discussion but anyway...

My brother just literally in the last few weeks started shooting handguns. He has quite a bit of experience with smallbore rifle. But a rifle is not a handgun and his handgun selection is a DA/SA 9mm autoloader shooting factory ammo. His need is for a self-defense handgun not competition so much. Nothing wrong with his selection of firearm for his purpose but not in my opinion an easy first handgun to learn the basics on either. He lives 400 miles away from me so I really cannot do much to help him.

I have made the suggestion that he get a rimfire pistol and use that to get the fundamentals under control. I don't think he wants to do that but I think it's a great idea. I believe this is the message MrBorland is trying to make.

Also I want to press home the point that I have already made that with dry fire and live fire practice, it is best to do practice drills. That is why I suggested the Steve Anderson book, he doesn't go into a lot of basic technique per-se rather he (and other drill books) give the drill, some hints and suggested par times and a way to track progress.
 
rpenmanparker said:
DB, when you say you need a big bore revolver for defense against bears in Alaska, do you mean the stopping power, the reliability, or both? IOW would a .50 caliber Desert Eagle or hot loaded 10 mm semi-auto not do the job? Are they not reliable enough?
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LOL, I give you one thing, you are persistent.:p
 
thomas15 said:
My brother just literally in the last few weeks started shooting handguns. He has quite a bit of experience with smallbore rifle. But a rifle is not a handgun and his handgun selection is a DA/SA 9mm autoloader shooting factory ammo. His need is for a self-defense handgun not competition so much. Nothing wrong with his selection of firearm for his purpose but not in my opinion an easy first handgun to learn the basics on either. He lives 400 miles away from me so I really cannot do much to help him.
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I think it's always a good idea to learn the basics of shooting with a 22 revolver or pistol. But a lot of folks, men in particular, won't do that. So the next best is a 9mm pistol or 38/357 revolver using primarily 38 Spl. Both the 9mm and the 38 Spl. are moderate in recoil and readily available. The guns should be duty sized (K or L frame S&W sized) or compacts (reminder that a Glock 19 is a compact).

Literally millions of people have learned to shoot da/sa guns well. They are not harder to train with or learn from. The opinion that they are is incorrect. Sometimes we hear this from some firearms instructors and it's wrong. What they actually mean is that it's harder for them to teach a class where some folks have Glocks, some the Beretta 92, some the 1911 platform and some Sigs.

Having a 22 wheelgun and semis is a ticket to a lot of shooting fun and challenges. They should just be available.
 
But competing to win is not what he is asking about either. He is saying he competes with his carry gun just for the fun and practice of using his carry gun. I get that.
I have race guns but I do on occasion use a standard duty gun just to keep good with multiple platforms. Do about 500 quick reloads with a double stack with a massive competition magwell and then try with a Sig 220 or 1911 (I occasionally carry one of the two in 10mm for our woods, which again isn't Alaska by a long shot). Obviously I'm much faster with the guns built especially for it. But out of the box is nice to try too.
 
Lol. Well I carry a semi-auto nearly all the time that I carry. If I'm hunting I take a revolver about 90% of the time. I have few handguns I can regularly take a deer past 100 yards with. All are revolvers. My 44 and 10mm semi autos could do it in theory I suppose. But not with my shooting them. Other than the double stack tens the desert eagle holds 7 rounds. The delta and 220 hold 8+1. A good 44 with 6 rounds is giving up very little to nothing to those. I prefer a semiauto in my woods. I likely wouldn't in Alaska. I've seen record holding black bear in my area. I also stood in front of a mounted Alaskan trophy in a cabelas (maybe in PA i can't remember). The difference is staggering. Think... Collie vs great Dane
 
rpenmanparker said:
DB, when you say you need a big bore revolver for defense against bears in Alaska, do you mean the stopping power, the reliability, or both? IOW would a .50 caliber Desert Eagle or hot loaded 10 mm semi-auto not do the job? Are they not reliable enough?
Click to expand...
The desert eagle is a toy and nothing more, the weight and size make it unwieldy when I can carry a more powerful 50 Cal round in a revolver for less weight like a .500 Linebaugh or .500 Wyoming Express. A 10mm if loaded right offers modest protection at best, when a 800lbs plus bruin is running at you full speed, all that capacity or quick reload time that automatic fans love to tote becomes nill, you WILL have time for maybe a couple of rounds and if I can only have at MOST a couple of rounds it's going to be at minimum in .41 mag caliber with the heaviest loaded bullet weight which as far as I know for .41 mag is buffalo bore's 265 grain. The 10mm auto is incapable (regardless of semi platform) of heavier bullet weights and may suffer from feeding issues with different bullet profiles.
 
Styx said:
I think 9mmepiphany point is that a revolver shooter has the ability to be competitive whether they're a novice or not. As far as dropping loose rounds, don't many competition shooters and the like use moon clips? They seem like they'd solve that issue... I don't know about Rugers, but many Smiths are cut for them. It also isn't that expensive to have it machined in.

That's good to know 9mmepiphany. I'm sure it's safe to assume that all the other 146 competitors that he beat weren't all novices. I wish they took video... What revolver was he shooting?
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I don't necessarily class the guys I shoot against as world class or anything. Like the rest of is, they have jobs and families, etc. They enjoy the sport and do well at it. I certainly wouldn't want to have face off against any of them in a dark alley.

As far as moon clips, dropping live rounds, etc.: I had another thread here a couple months back about that, and the general consensus, with which I agree, is that machining my cylinder and changing to moon clips would probably save me some time, but there were/are other areas that need improvement that would save me even more time. Some of that has been restated here, but it's a lot more glaringly clear to me now than it was then. I don't think equipment is my primarily problem.

As to dropping live rounds on the ground (and I hear that's a no-no in IDPA) that's a result of ammo management and/or a mandatory reload at a certain point in each stage (and that's common with the guys who design the stages I shoot.) The typical scenario here is I will have 1-2 rounds left in the gun, and I wil be moving from part of the corse to another, and I know, for example I have a plate rack coming up; I'll dump those 2 live rounds, clear the cylinder, and reload while moving (slowly) from one point to the next. When I'm ready to start the plate rack, I have 6 rounds and not two. I probably lost a few seconds in the process, but, at least in the winter, everyone is moving slowly out there for fear of a slip and fall in the snow which could cause you to break the 180 and DQ.
 
rpenmanparker said:
DB, when you say you need a big bore revolver for defense against bears in Alaska, do you mean the stopping power, the reliability, or both? IOW would a .50 caliber Desert Eagle or hot loaded 10 mm semi-auto not do the job? Are they not reliable enough?
Click to expand...

They really aren't reliable enough. I see a few guys here and there who are carrying a 10mm Glock, and they're always pretty young guys. (under 30). Additionally, 10mm, in most factory loads, just doesn't have the knock down power that a 44 magnum has. Then there is that thing about being shooting cast lead in a Glock or something. You really have to reload 10mm to wring all the potential out of it. Then there is the issue that, if I'm basically under a bear, and I press the Glock muzzle into the bear's chest, it will come out of battery and not fire. So, for most folks up here, a revolver is the bear gun of choice. (44 magnum is considered the smallest, minimum, caliber.)
 
crestoncowboy said:
If he likes a revolver, auto or pump shotgun it doesn't matter if you miss a 12 inch circle at 25 yards, you are going to miss a bears head.
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I totally agree with your basic premise here; I've got a lot of work to do. However, I thought it worth noting (not that I wan't to derail the thread into bear defense) that a head shot is pretty much the last thing you want to try on a bear. Their skulls are pretty thick, so, even with an accurate hit, you may not get penetration. The standard projectile for this use is a hard cast WFN (essentially a tiny lead soup can - almost a wadcutter) and you want to hit vital zones where you have better odds of penetrating through the body and bones to get to the organs. Still...you have to be able to hit that vital zone.

But we're way off topic now.
 
You shoot where you feel is best. Ive killed many animals from 2000 lb cattle to most anything edible (or at least edible to me) in the USA other than in Alaska. Hitting vital organs other than brain will kill any animal but you likely won't get to see it take effect on a pissed off animal. But yeah there are plenty of bear defense threads. Of the hundred or so articles ive read on the subject ive never read one that said anything other than head and spine, most say aim for the nose. And in my experience that's what I'd do. I could definitely end up in a poo pile before you though. Not much hindsight in these situations I guess. Lol.

Either way I'm all for your goal to get better with your chosen platform. Competing with it is definitely a great idea in my book as is taking classes. Shooting with those who are truly great is a humbling experience, and ive been a handgun (and by that I mean iron sighted revolvers and semi-autos, not scoped bolt and single shot handguns) hunter since I was in my teens.

ETA. https://www.grandviewoutdoors.com/big-game-hunting/just-stop-charging-bear

That might be of interest to you. It also mentions some classes on the subject. One at gunsight. Some good suggestions in this thread though. I wish you the best.
 
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D.B. Cooper said:
They really aren't reliable enough. I see a few guys here and there who are carrying a 10mm Glock, and they're always pretty young guys. (under 30). Additionally, 10mm, in most factory loads, just doesn't have the knock down power that a 44 magnum has. Then there is that thing about being shooting cast lead in a Glock or something. You really have to reload 10mm to wring all the potential out of it. Then there is the issue that, if I'm basically under a bear, and I press the Glock muzzle into the bear's chest, it will come out of battery and not fire. So, for most folks up here, a revolver is the bear gun of choice. (44 magnum is considered the smallest, minimum, caliber.)
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Thanks. Nice, clear answer to my question. .44 Mag or bigger is the choice. Got it.
 
I just went through this thread again...lots of good discussion here.

One thing I realized: nobody has mentioned that Front Sight has a facility in Alaska.

https://www.frontsight.com/alaska/

They are only offering skillbuilder courses this summer, so you would have to take at least your first course in Nevada, but the skillbuilders are good for tuneups, and, with a membership, have no incremental cost to attend.
 
luzyfuerza said:
I just went through this thread again...lots of good discussion here.

One thing I realized: nobody has mentioned that Front Sight has a facility in Alaska.

https://www.frontsight.com/alaska/

They are only offering skillbuilder courses this summer, so you would have to take at least your first course in Nevada, but the skillbuilders are good for tuneups, and, with a membership, have no incremental cost to attend.
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Didn’t know.
 
I forgot about this thread. I found https://www.accurateadvantage.us/ here in Anchorage. Great folks great training.The owner is a former bear hunting guide and knows revolvers really well. I did a 2-hour private training session and made some real discoveries. About a month later, I did their Intermediate Handgun training course with my revolver, and did really well. Learned a lot of new ways to train. It was very cost effective, especially compared to out of state travel.
 
Dave T said:
Sadly too many of today's trainers and even competition match designers are caught up in the "street gang", "narco hit squad", "gang of terrorists" mind set when developing training/match scenarios. In reality very practical and realistic training can be conducted with one, two, or three targets, which can indeed be engaged with a revolver, even a 5-shot if you are competent. Designing exercises around a Glock 19 or 17 is entertaining but not really necessary.

YMMV,
Dave
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I don’t think this post represents the spirit of any of the training courses I have attended over the last couple decades.

There’s far more going on in these courses than simply banging away at targets. Else you’ve picked the wrong outfit or instructor.
 
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