Who Else Has Finally Figured Out That Sub-Compacts Are a CCW Handicap?

Capybara

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I've carried my trusty Shield 1.0 for almost 8 years. I recently acquired a Ruger Max 9 to try out carrying with an optic and I liked my Shield 1.0 so much that I bought a Shield Plus PC. I like all three guns. I've shot my friend's Hellcat and P365 as well. I also have my G17 on my CCW and occasionally carry it but it's a bit uncomfortable when sitting down or driving, the handle digs into my side. But as far as shooting, drawing and accuracy, the G17 is soooo much easier, smoother and quicker than my subcompacts. I have medium sized hands and long fingers and my friends Hellcat and 365 would be useless to me as a carry gun, the grips are so tiny that I can barely fit it in my hand and when I do, the gun is swimming around, hard to get a good grip with the primary hand and the support palm doesn't even touch the gun, just the fingers on the primary. It's not a good grip.

I think we've reached the same point with sub compact CCW pistols that we reached with cell phones. Remember the older days when we all had flip phones and candybar phones? They reached a point where some of the models were just too small, you couldn't even manipulate or use them to make a call without almost dropping them. The earpiece and mouthpiece were so close together that your mouth was almost too far from the mouthpiece when you had the phone to your ear. I think sub compact pistol mania is at the same point, we went too small and now the trend is going back to the more compact size, rather than sub/micro compact.

I'm seriously considering adding a G19, Shadow Systems MR920 or a Walther PDP Compact with the 4.25" barrel to my CCW next time I am able to. Do you have a subcompact CCW and are coming to the realization that a compact instead of a subcompact would actually be a better carry gun? I shoot my subcompacts ok, but trying to quickly get a good grip is a three ring circus because I have to exaggerate how far into the trigger guard I must place my trigger finger in order to close the gap between my support hand palm and the side of the pistol. With the G17, I can just present the gun and my hands fall right into place, no gyrations required. The Glock grip is fat on the 17 and 19 but at least it gives your grip palm and the supporting hand palm a place to go. With the subcompacts, I have to work at it, which eats up precious time and I do not shoot them as accurately as a larger pistol, even with practice.

Thoughts? Anyone else thinking of dumping their subcompact CCW guns for something a mid size like a G19? It's all fine to have a smaller, lighter, less bulky carry gun but if you don't shoot it as well, is comfort everything?
 
You obviously have very large hands and the little micro compacts aren't a good fit for you. A G19 just might be the perfect gun for you.

Me, I wear a size large glove. Most guns fit me well enough that I can get comfortable with them. My EDC is either a full sized 1911 or a P365. I'm comfortable with both.

Some people have small hands and anything larger than a hellcat or a P365 are too big to be comfortable.

It's not a one size fits all world. I'm happy there is such a wide variety of sizes available. More women are getting armed now. If we're ever going to stop the erosion of out 2A freedoms, we have to get more women involved in self protection with the best tools for them.

My girlfriend is a tiny little 4' 11" "macro midget". While she can shoot my 1911 well enough, she isn't going to carry it. My 365 on the other hand fits her like it was custom made for her and she shoots it as well as I can. Big plus, she carries it.:)
 
You know you can have more than one gun right?

I don't have dozens, but two in regular rotation, picked for conditions. Normally I am not even a bit compact (e.g. your G19 thought) but full sized double stack with RDS and WML. If that won't work I have a flat, 7 shots onboard, subcompact (though also with small light and dot!) and when THAT won't work I usually and manage a fannypack carrying the subcompact.

But I'd never ditch one for the other, per se.
 
I have medium sized hands and long fingers and my friends Hellcat and 365 would be useless to me as a carry gun, the grips are so tiny that I can barely fit it in my hand and when I do, the gun is swimming around, hard to get a good grip with the primary hand and the support palm doesn't even touch the gun, just the fingers on the primary. It's not a good grip.

I think we've reached the same point with sub compact CCW pistols that we reached with cell phones. Remember the older days when we all had flip phones and candybar phones? They reached a point where some of the models were just too small, you couldn't even manipulate or use them to make a call without almost dropping them. The earpiece and mouthpiece were so close together that your mouth was almost too far from the mouthpiece when you had the phone to your ear. I think sub compact pistol mania is at the same point, we went too small and now the trend is going back to the more compact size, rather than sub/micro compact.

I'm seriously considering adding a G19, Shadow Systems MR920 or a Walther PDP Compact with the 4.25" barrel to my CCW next time I am able to. Do you have a subcompact CCW and are coming to the realization that a compact instead of a subcompact would actually be a better carry gun? I shoot my subcompacts ok, but trying to quickly get a good grip is a three ring circus because I have to exaggerate how far into the trigger guard I must place my trigger finger in order to close the gap between my support hand palm and the side of the pistol. With the G17, I can just present the gun and my hands fall right into place, no gyrations required. The Glock grip is fat on the 17 and 19 but at least it gives your grip palm and the supporting hand palm a place to go. With the subcompacts, I have to work at it, which eats up precious time and I do not shoot them as accurately as a larger pistol, even with practice.

Thoughts?

I use my pocket guns as hand guns not hands guns. One handed practice, whether strong hand or weak hand. Two hands on little guns don’t work very well for me.

Here’s a video of a good sized guy firing a small gun.
 
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I have ham hands. A micro, ultra, or subcompact is not good for me. Not saying these three mentioned options are bad for everyone. There are other alternatives for both big hands and comfortable carry. With the unbelievable sizes and flavors of available carry guns these days there is a perfect match for everyone.
 
Maybe you just need to pay for trainer. Just do it standard from now on everytime you buy a new gun. Armed body guards is always an option also.
 
I gave up on small guns period. Like you I discovered or really just admitted that I just can't shoot them (small revolvers either). I've never been a great shot, but I do a lot better with something at least the size of a commander 1911 or a Glock 19 (about the same size really). I don't find them all that much harder to conceal with my normal untucked T-shirt, sweat shirt, or as a last resort, my "shoot me first" photographers type vest.
 
Sure, I shoot full size guns better. But the sub-compact on my side trumps the full size gun I left at home. I wear an XL glove and don't have any problems shooting a Sig 365 or G43. My KelTec 380 is a mite small, but there are times/places where it it either the 380 or nothing.
 
I have medium sized hands, Maybe more towards large. Compact guns like the Glock 19(I have two) and the S&W M&P Compact (I have 1), and even the M&P 2.0 subcompact(I have 1), are too big for carry for me. Very comfortable to shoot, but for carry I need small and light and they are just too big.

My carry guns are a Ruger LC9S and a Shield Plus. I have held a 365 and it is nice and light, but it does feel too small to me. The Shield Plus disappears in my waistband and I hardly know it’s there, yet I shoot it very well and it’s comfortable to shoot.

For a strictly self defense gun that you’re not going to enjoy shooting much at the range, those micro guns are great. I know I enjoy shooting my Shield Plus more than I do my LC9S. It’s not that the Ruger is awful, it’s just the Shield is something I could shoot all day. The Ruger is not.
 
I have carried guns of different sizes, including Glocks, 1911s, and revolvers but am very happy with the SIG Sauer P365 and can draw it as fast and confidently as a Glock 19. I can also shoot the gun as accurate and with fast follow up shots as my Glock 19. With the 10rd magazines the grip is a little too short to get a fast grip on the gun and no amount of practice has changed that for me and so I use the 15 rd mags and rarely a 12 rd mag.
 
A Glock 17 fits my hand better than a Glock 19 and is just as easy to carry concealed provided the 17 has a holster with claw - AIWB.
Normally I wear cargo shorts and a loose fit untucked shirt with print or pattern, concealing a Glock 17 size pistol aint difficult.

If/when I go to the gym, I wear gym shorts and will be doing various exercises so concealing a larger gun is not a option; I begrudgingly have a 38 snub in Smartcarry and a LCP380 holstered in pocket. When I get to the gym the holstered LCP 380 goes in locked locker and I've got the snub on me in Smartcarry while I exercise, "best I can do".
 
My criteria has always been, "carry what you shoot the best with", and for me, thats always been full sized handguns. And in almost 50 years of daily carry now, other than exploring a new model here and there, its been GM and Commander 1911's, SIG P220's/226's, and now Glock 17's.

I always looked at the compacts/subcompacts as BUG's to what I normally carry, and when used, were used as that as a second gun. Ive only ever used them as a primary when there was just no other way to pull it off, and that's always been pretty rare.

Carrying a full size gun really isnt hard to do, but you do have to want to do it, and figure out what works best for you. Its not hard, but sometimes it takes some thought.

One thing Ive always thought people got backward was, the convenience over need thing. Yea, odds of needing your gun might be low or even rare, but when you need it, you REALLY need it, and the best you can get. You should be planning and preparing for the worst, not the easiest.

That little gun might be comforting in your pocket, but its not going to do you much good if you cant get it out and going quickly and on demand, without thought, and shoot it well. And the smaller you go, the harder things get, and the more time and effort you need to put in with it in practice, and as with anything, you need to be regularly practicing with it, no matter what it is.
 
If I can get my pinky finger on the grip it doesn't feel right. Lack of tactical girth has forced me to practice with subcompacts. If I want to shoot a full size handgun accurately I really have to put in some work.
 
Capbara,

I skipped the sub-compact phase completely as decades of training with mid-sized weapons has me distinctly biased. I'm remembering one instructor's adage, "No gun is too small when carrying, and no gun is too big when drawn to save your life." So a Goldilocks selection simply makes sense to me.

That experience aside, I do have large hands. So large, that I think a G21 fits just fine.

I'm also aware that the FBI, whose SA's carry concealed 100%, of the time go no smaller than a G19, even up to senior desk-jockey leadership.

That said, my wiferoo shoots her 365 with a vengeance.
 
1- In every option there are trade-offs. 2- things like hand sizes, comfort, abilities, etc. are all very individual. In my case (Fl) what most people call "summer wear" is really "most of the year wear", so hiding larger pistols is challenging at best. Not to mention, I'm smaller than average, which makes concealing a handgun while keeping it accessible for rapid use an even bigger challenge.
 
When in the car my carry gun goes in the console for quick access. If im duel carrying one goes in the door pocket. It's hard to draw from a holster seated. Worse yet from your pocket.
 
Not me. I do shoot G19 size pistols better but the trade off in size is not worth it. If I had to carry a G19 I would just choose to not carry 90% of the time. I’m 6’4” and I shoot my small pistols like my LC9s, Max9, CSX, and Kahr P40 just fine. You may just need to try some talon grips. Without talon grips my LC9s moves in my hand with every shot, but with talons I can shoot a whole mag one handed as fast as I can pull the trigger and it doesn’t move, even with a flush mag and 2 finger grip.
 
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