Who Is The Real Frame Maker?

[BigMike66]

Was visiting my local BPS, and while talking to the gun salesman, he made a comment:

"Kimber makes the frames that Wilson Combat uses"

IF this is true:

1. Kimber makes high quality frames good enough for WC $2000 1911s

2. WC is using lower quality frames in their 1911s and should NOT cost $2000.

Any thoughts?

 

[lee n. field]

IF this is true:

This is what you need to determine first.

the gun salesman

Unnn-huh.

 

[BigMike66]

Bass Pro doesn't carry either, so I can't see any motivation.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

Assuming there is any truth to this at all, I think it more likely and fairer to say that the same company makes the part for both Kimber and Wilson's, who then do their respective matching/fitting and finishing. This is not unprecedented in the gun business. Major components of the .380 version of the NAA Guardian are or were made by Kahr, and I am certain I've read that Smith & Wesson has made parts for other companies.

 

[BigMike66]

I think it more likely and fairer to say that the same company makes the part for both Kimber and Wilson's, who then do their respective matching/fitting and finishing.

I can accept that.

My concern comes from being relatively new to the sport, so I have to question the cost of some handguns.

Your statement makes me start to believe "your paying for the name" in the handgun world, JUST like most other hobbies.

Of course, fit and finish should still be noticeable between a $700 Kimber and a $2300 WC.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

Your statement makes me start to believe "your paying for the name" in the handgun world, JUST like most other hobbies.

To a large degree, that is true. And somewhere, you meet a point of diminishing returns.

Having nothing better to do ... er, sorry, my curiosity was piqued, so I went over to Wilson's site. But I was unable to determine if their frames and slides are made in-house or by another vendor.

 

[JohnBT]

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_166_27/ai_109265008

American Handgunner, Nov-Dec, 2003 by Massad Ayoob

"He continued "going vertical" in production with the frames and slides, which are produced to Wilson Combat's specifications by Kimber. (The Light Rail frame is made by Caspian.) Tyson Anderson, Wilson Combat's sales manager, tells me his firm is "very close" to manufacturing its own slides and frames to the same exacting standards."

 

[DPris]

Wilson has, in the past, obtained frames from an outside vendor. I believe they still do, but can't say for sure.
Denis

 

[SDDL-UP]

I totally believe that. No reason Wilson shouldn't use frames made by Kimber, it's good stuff.

 

[sturmgewehr]

Kimber made slides and frames for Wilson many years ago. Kimber then started running ads saying their guns were as good as Wilson's guns for half the price. They were full page ads... so Wilson started running counter ad's and this little war broke out. Wilson and Kimber split on bad terms many years ago. Wilson now has another supplier.

 

[stevereno1]

S&W makes Kimber's frames. They have for a long while. Springfield's frames are made in Brazil, Taurus is 100% spanish fly.

 

[stevereno1]

Kimber to this day, doesn't have the manufacturing power to make it's own frames. I doubt that they even machine their own slides. They just machine the parts that they order into what kimber customers expect. good guns, just not 100% in-house operation. The only gun companies in the USA that have the capabilities to turn raw steel into guns is Ruger, and S&W.

 

[JohnBT]

Kimber used to buy raw forgings from S&W, but that stopped long enough ago that I can't remember when it was.

This topic pops up on assorted forums every few months, year after year.

John

 

[harrydog]

So many 1911 manufacturers advertise that their frames are forged steel. Colt, Kimber, S&W, Wilson, Baer, Brown, RRA, Springfield, STI, Pistol Dynamics, etc.
Springfield sources theirs from Imbel of Brazil and apparently S&W forges their own. Where do all the others get theirs from? I've often wondered.

 

[MICHAEL T]

I thought Colt was still all in house.

 

[BigMike66]

This topic pops up on assorted forums every few months, year after year.

Which I see as a good thing.

As posters are indicating, there are and have been quite a few changes in manufacturers and suppliers of the frames and slides. So much, that it appears as though we can't be sure who is making what.

In the bigger scheme of things, does it matter? No. It's just nice to know.

 

[DPris]

Colt buys their frames & slides from a forging house, does the machining in house.
Colt outsources most of their parts nowdays.
Denis

 

[Rinspeed]

Kimber to this day, doesn't have the manufacturing power to make it's own frames. I doubt that they even machine their own slides. They just machine the parts that they order into what kimber customers expect. good guns, just not 100% in-house operation. The only gun companies in the USA that have the capabilities to turn raw steel into guns is Ruger, and S&W.

Well, they don't own a foundry if that's what you're saying. They do buy the blanks and do all the machining in house though. To me that is making there own slides and frames. The reason Kimber bought Jerico Precision in Yonkers was because they were already making top notch gun parts for many companies including Wilson.

 

[Keepmvng]

A little reading:

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=183961