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Who still wants an ACR?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Hammerhead6814, Apr 9, 2010.

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  1. Hammerhead6814

    Hammerhead6814 Member

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    I think it's well documented at this point that I am extremely anti- AR-15. In fact if my level of love for America could be judged by how much I love AR-15's, Glenn Beck could call me a Communist and be right. My affection for the .223 round the AR-15 shoots is also documented as "blasphemous" by the Remington faithful.

    That being said, who on earth still wants an ACR?

    [​IMG]

    According to sources it will cost between $2000 and $3000 dollars. Twice it's initial reported rate. For that sum that could have just as easily bought two Robinson Arms XCR's, two to three Rock River Arms Tactical A4's , one and 4/5's RRA PPS, or a good used Sedan.

    Entry level ACR's come with steel barrels, shoot .223, and have no after-market features yet available. Bushmaster touts the ACR's "modularity", the word that has the entire gun-owning world a-buzz with excitement. But one can't help but to wonder what the AR-15 has done wrong here! Not only has it been modular for nearly a decade, the now common rail systems on AR's give you all the added gear you could want! It can also switch calibers with the push of a button and the swapping of a upper receiver.

    So what exactly will you be buying when you buy an ACR that you couldn't get from another weapon already on the market? If it's swapping calibers it's the AR-15 winning hands-down. If it's calibers, the AR-15 is even being made in 6.5 Grendel and 7.62x39. If it's ergonomics the AR-15 has been handy for over 50 years and counting. If it's price, they range from $600 "I built it myself", to $2000 ".1 MOA at 700 yards". If it's reliability, piston kits and uppers are being made by over 12 manufacturers. Nowhere does my arch-nemesis fail to do something the ACR only claims to do.

    Come to think of it, the Sedan even beats out the ACR! It does after all cost less to fill-up, uses more synthetic materials, and is definitely larger caliber.

    So seeing as my amazing brain can't figure this out, I'm throwing the thought to the open sewer. The internet. Whether it's here or on another forum, I want to hear what YOU, yes YOU, think the ACR is worth and is doing well.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2010
  2. Zerodefect

    Zerodefect Member

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    Nope. For bigger money, I expect a bigger Ar. I allready have a carbine or 4.

    The LMT .308 and Larue OBR .308 are here, I want one of those instead! The OBR's are allready looking like a way sub MOA weapon. 1000yds easy.......1 mile has been done allready.
     
  3. HorseSoldier

    HorseSoldier Member

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    On the ACR topic, I agree -- for the price point, it doesn't seem to do much for any potential segment of the market.
     
  4. happygeek

    happygeek Member

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    Meh, I've already got a evil black semi-auto with a gas piston, quad rail, and folding buttstock. I could get pretty much everything on my wish list right now for 2 to 3 grand. Let's see

    $100 to 150 cheap red dot for the 22LR
    $500 Aimpoint M68
    $400 3x magnifier for the Aimpoint
    $150 scope mount for the M1A
    $300 to 400 scope for the M1A

    (only $1,500 so far)

    $400 to 500 AK
    $100 Mosin

    Only $2,000 so I still have a grand to spend on ammo for said AK and Mosin

    Now, would I rather have a ACR with no ammo or all that stuff I just listed. Hmmm, let me think ...
     
  5. RX-178

    RX-178 Member

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    Bean counters. They see a huge demand for tacticool rifles, and pump the price to ridiculous levels to capitalize without spending much production money.

    So instead of lots of people getting them, only a few REALLY insane gun nuts shell out... and the bean counters get a terrific bottom line on the whole deal.
     
  6. Zerodefect

    Zerodefect Member

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    How many jellybeans can I get for the cost of an ACR?

    :p
     
  7. Quentin

    Quentin Member

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    AR for me, not a second thought.
     
  8. paintballdude902

    paintballdude902 Member

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    i want one, id be willing to pay about 1500 but not any more
     
  9. Mags

    Mags Member

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    ^+1, I want one but not paying over 1500$.
     
  10. Daemon688

    Daemon688 Member

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    I was excited....then I realized it does nothing new. Price needs to go down and I need to have 7.62x39.
     
  11. hoodfu

    hoodfu Member

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    Me. Have one in FDE on order, should have it inside of a month. Reasons include: love the ergonomics/trigger hand controls, piston based so hopefully less cleaning than my ARs, takes GI mags, important for a pre-ban guy like me, and best of all, my company is paying for it so price isn't a hangup. I have first hand experience with bushmasters excellent customer service. I know that I'll have a well functioning gun for a long time even if something goes wrong with it.

    New video of it btw:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nz0v8SHAe9o
     
  12. Driftertank

    Driftertank Member

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    Target demographic: Modern Warfare gamer fanboys with more money than sense, who have ALL seen that the ACR is teh shiz for multiplayer battle! (I still prefer the FAL)
     
  13. DoubleTapDrew

    DoubleTapDrew Member

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    The beancounters didn't get the memo that the buying frenzy was over and people are no longer paying $1,700 for AR-15s.
    I'd like one but only if it was much closer to $1,000.
     
  14. Tommygunn

    Tommygunn Member

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    I have a M4orgery, a Sig 556, so I pretty much have that caliber covered. A WASR 10 and an M-1 Carbine cover a couple other military calibers.
    I have nothing against the ACR, but I really don't need it, plus, as others point out, the price is ridiculous. I just don't want to pay that much. For another type of rifle, in a bigger caliber, if it's worth it, yeah ... but I really just don't need the ACR.
     
  15. Birddog1911

    Birddog1911 Member

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    If I'm gonna spend that kind of money (I'm not), I'd get another M1A and a FAL, or a darned nice LRB M14. I think I could even get an M1D for that price. I could even buy more than 200 Mosins! Okay, I like wood and steel, not plastic and aluminum. I want a gun that will be around in 100 years, not made from recycled materials, just to be recycled again! ;)
     
  16. Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow

    Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow member

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    Sure, I'll take one. Oh, you mean pay for it? Nah... Cool rifle, worth about 65% of it's price.
     
  17. RobMoore

    RobMoore Member

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    When it costs $1200ish (and not for the "basic" stripped down model), I'll take a hammer to the piggy bank. Until then, not a chance bushmaster.
     
  18. Zak Smith

    Zak Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    Let me address several of the point in this thread.

    1. The AR-15 is a solid, proven platform that is accurate, versatile, and reliable for fighting and competition. It is effective. AR-15 "hate" is usually an irrational reaction to some peripheral factor by people who don't shoot fighting carbines very much.

    2. The argument that "I can buy X A's for the cost of one B" is often misguided. I could buy 20 Lorcins for the price of a competition-level SV pistol, but that isn't relevant to which is the better choice for competition shooting.

    3. There are qualitative differences in feature-set between the ACR, XCR, AR-15, various new AR-15 "systems", etc. A key portion of the overall effectiveness of a weapon depends on its specific features, how they were implemented, and how well they work. Sometimes subtle differences in operating design changes performance to a palpable degree.

    4. MSRP's of roughly $2600 and $3000 are very high for a fighting carbine. I expect to see them for sale for only $200 over dealer once they are readily available.

    5. The price of everything is going up (look at your grocery bill vs. 3 years ago). It also took an extra, what, year or 18 months, to bring it to market. Like it or not, that's R&D time that has to be paid for.

    I would personally love to get my hands on one. I am curious to see how it can be made to perform vs. the best 3-Gun rifles, with some tuning, and I think it'd be a great basis for a suppressed SBR. But I haven't ordered one yet either.

    -z
     
  19. marktx

    marktx Member

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    Got my hands on an ACR today and it's a nice looking rifle though I really wasn't impressed enough with it to consider getting one for ~$2400. Also looked at the SCAR and it's a bit on the high side as well, also waiting for the black ones to hit the market as I don't care for the tan color.

    Pick of the day was the Kel Tec RFB, first time I had seen one in person and I liked it a lot. They were asking $1800 and I'm holding out for Bud's to get them in stock.
     
  20. Birddog1911

    Birddog1911 Member

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    Zak, if you do buy one, I'd love to see you do a write up on what you put it through.

    And for the record, I love the AR-15 too; was just being facetious. Some of my best memories are behind M16A2, s/n 6099916.
     
  21. Hammerhead6814

    Hammerhead6814 Member

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    1. I've shot a WASR-10/63, Saiga, AR-10, M1A (Springfield), Mini-14's, SU-16s, and several AR's. I liked everything but the AR's.

    2. Never compare an AR-15 to a Lorcin again. Your making my AR-15 hate feel like AR-15 love. Also You couldn't possibly throw the XCR into the Lorcin category.

    3. Name a single feature of the ACR that has a clear advantage over the AR-15 that after-market parts or recent (in the past five years) manufacturer techniques haven't solved.

    4. Dealer pricing usually is a maximum $500 less than MSRP. I cite the Mini-14. If the ACR is comparable, then we'll see the ACR or, bare minimum, $2000.

    5. The price of AR's has gone down. Last year it was roughly a grand for anything but a DPMS sportical. Today you can get AR's for $650-$700 and they aren't made by Olympic! SU-16's have remained static, in the $500-$600 range. Mini-14's are everywhere, like normal. M1A's cost what they did three years ago (about a grand). Magpul already had the R&D, Bushmaster took two years just to build machinery for it.

    What prices went up that haven't come back down? My grocery bill in '07 was roughly $100 a week, and I know I paid $95-ish last week. Tomorrow I'll check again, but if prices went up and stayed up then I'm Elvis Presley.
     
  22. noob_shooter

    noob_shooter member

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    what a rip off. I'd rather spend 2000-3000 buying 2-3 guns...
     
  23. Zak Smith

    Zak Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    Keeping with the point by point style.

    1. I didn't say you couldn't dislike an AR-15. I said it was usually an irrational reaction to a peripheral factor because the platform is proven across the board, including against those you list.

    2. You miss the point. If the scale of comparison was off, perhaps I should have said one SV 2011 or four Glocks.

    3. Side charging handle placed correctly, to name one. In addition, it puts together "most" of the things we've had an opportunity to learn about fighting carbines using various platforms including the AR-15 over the last 30+ years. (That's the reason we're seeing similar overall feature-sets in the ACR and SCAR.) There are AR-15 uppers that have an monolithic, unified top rail, and there are ambi controls and more efficient controls, and there are side-folding AR-15 uppers, but there is an additional benefit in having essentially all of them put together in an integrated design.

    4. The MSRP is more than $500 more than the dealer price. I logged in to a distributor when they were first available to see.

    5. Using products involved in market "bubbles" to determine inflation rates is problematic. There was an AR-15 bubble that started in late 2008 and continued through late 2009. Then there was a glut as people stopped panic buying.
     
  24. Murphys Law

    Murphys Law Member

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    Sorry Elvis, I have to agree with Zak. Beer prices have definitely gone up since 2007 and unfortunately have not come back down :D
     
  25. Prion

    Prion Member

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    I like the looks of it but the support and parts supply for AR's is hard to beat. If it's going strong and prices drop in a couple years I'll pick one up. Zak is right, definitely an improvement over the AR platform in many respects. AR's still rock though!
     
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