Who wears body armor? Non-LEO's

[trashpickinman]

I have Level II from Point Blank. I am not a LEO or military. I used to wear it all the time when I lived in Houston, TX. But I always wear it when I go to the range; seeing the bullet holes in the partitions between stalls doesn't fill me with confidence in those shooting next to me.

I haven't worn it regularly in public in a long time, one of the last times I wore it, the very top was sticking out of the top of my jacket, somebody apparently recognized it and practically ran away from me. I don't even carry a CCW.

I keep thinking about selling it to make a little money to keep up with the bills, but I always keep thinking about SHTF situations. So its still right by my doorway, about a yard from my rifle.

 

[JR719]

Due to the job I have to wear one, unless the temp is over 95 or so (regs). I decided to not wear it one very hot day and felt naked. I now wear it regardless of the temp. Since it is provided by the dept. I figure it is free insurance so I keep it on.
Off duty it stays home. I could not imagine wearing it in the off time. Mine is made of Spectra, lighter and thiner than Kevlar. Still like wearing a coat in the summer, very hot.

For non LEO's, if you have the money it seems like insurance. May never need it, but if you do.... It is becoming more widespread that the "bad guys" are wearing vests. Keep that in mind if you get into a bad situation.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Soybomb said,

Sure you can. I can slip a p3at in my pocket and quite literally forget its there.

I carry a gun when I can because its a minor inconvenience at worst that may save my life. It is not an intrusive interference in my life.

I think we have heard from another of the "Better than nothing" gallery of those who carry out of convenience more so than self protection.

------

For around $500, for about the first time in history, you can BUY protection that will save your LIFE from these same calibers in a light and comfortable package. My vest is a level IIA, weighs 5 lbs, is kevlar, cost $450, and will stop a .357 magnum. It wears comfortably under a polo shirt and I've never been "made" wearing it, to my knowledge.

I think your friends are polite about your vest not being made. Even the guy in the Bulletproofme adds has a vest that is readily seen. Vests create some odds shapes under a person's body that are not normal.

Your IIA vest may stop a .357 mag round and that sounds really impressive until you read the information and learn that is a jacketed soft point. Those expand fairly fast and sure enough, the vest will stop it, but because of the expansion. It won't stop a simple 9mm FMJ ball round at 1200 fps.

 

[Soybomb]

I think we have heard from another of the "Better than nothing" gallery of those who carry out of convenience more so than self protection.

Do you carry a take down rifle in a backpack with you everywhere? If not, why not?

 

[leadcounsel]

I guess if you don't ever plan on being shot or in a car accident, then you shouldn't ever need a vest.

Oh, and by the way, can I have next weeks winning lotto numbers?

There are estimated millions of self defense situations annually involving guns. It's not the odds, its what's at stake.

 

[redneckdan]

I can't afford a vest but if I had one I would regularly wear it while volunteering as and RO at our university range. I got nailed with a ricocheting hardball last year. It hit my chest and knocked me right off my feet. Didn't penetrate but left a nasty scar.

 

[odysseus]

Interesting thread, and one I think about time to time and still consider buying a IIIa vest. I haven't, but I am open to the idea and certainly think it's not too expensive in comparison to what it can offer. I think some here are too apt to just jump into saying No, baaaa humbug.

I think the conversations here are not addressing the question in a macro view, but are honing in on the micro point of "are you going to where it everyday?". Sure that's valid and agreed in a common sense view of someone who is not in a security job daily.

However let me bring in an example by quoting someone here in this thread:

I don't wear a crash helmet and padded suit when driving a car either, but if I wanted to really safe its probably a good idea. You have to balance the need for safety with covenience and comfort.

You do wear a SA2005 helmet and FIA rated nomex firesuit when you race the car though, for example. So the fact that you have escalated your needs for safety require you need some gear to possibly protect you better. A helmet and firesuit are no guarantee to protect you should you roll over and catch on fire at the race track, but it certainly can and does protect people.

So when I think of the vest I think of it in these terms. Am I engaging in an activity with inherently more risk? Am I going to a public range where a ND may be more likely? Am I at more risk for being robbed at gunpoint because I have to run to the store at 11 PM to pick up medicine for a sick kid? You get what I mean?

So the more I think of it, I can't think why I wouldn't buy one and have it around for use in scenarios like this. And I can't see why anyone here who buys multiple firearms and ammo can say it's too expensive.

 

[.45&TKD]

I can't think why I wouldn't buy one and have it around for use in scenarios like this. And I can't see why anyone here who buys multiple firearms and ammo can say it's too expensive.

Ditto. I'm not surprised that the non-LEO's are not wearing vests. I am surprised at how many people are saying there's no sense in owning one.

In a worst case scenario, it couldn't hurt to have access to one. When you actually need one, you won't be able to get one. (Kinda like firearms in general).

Face it, we don't need most of the thing we talk about on this forum.

And no, I don't have one, and would not wear it often if I did, but wouldn't mind owning one eventually. just in case.

 

[cyanide]

It hit my chest and knocked me right off my feet. Didn't penetrate but left a nasty scar.

say what?

I shoot steel all the time

been hit by many bounce backs

they never did that ...................... never.

 

[Duach Laidir]

Very interesting posts, especially to a person that has no intention of wearing one .
I used to wear them back in my army days, both the plates and the cloth versions that were around in the 1950s. Both were hot, heavy and uncomfortable, but re-assuring, especiall the crotch protection. They were more correctly known as Flak Jackets.

But these days they aren't an option in Australia, they are illegal except for the armed services, police and politicians.

Our Prime Minister, the Honourable John Winston Howard (that little bald guy who has photo opps with George W on occassions) is famous for having worn one when he addressed a meeting of gun-owners a few years ago. Earned him the nick-name of Flak Jacket Johnny.

Still it's not all gloom we are graciously allowed to have steel toe-caps in our working boots, and all motor cyclists are required, by law, to wear helmets.

Workers who are likely to be held up, such as Service Station attendants, just have to take the risk.

Duach.

 

[.45&TKD]

in Australia, they are illegal except for the armed services, police and politicians.

Another good reason for free people to buy one IMO.

 

[redneckdan]

"say what?

I shoot steel all the time

been hit by many bounce backs

they never did that ...................... never."


this wasn't steel, was bowling pins, more energy in a richocet. Why does a rabbit some times flip when you shoot it with a .22? The bullet it self doesn't have enough energy to do that. I think the impact startled me and lossing my footing was just my reaction.

 

[the naked prophet]

I think the impact startled me and lossing my footing was just my reaction.

Same thing happened to me when I got hit in the shin from a ricochet (from a moist dirt berm). I fell over. The still-intact 9mm slug left a nasty bruise on my shin, but no penetration. Shouldn't have knocked me over, but I was kinda freaked out.

 

[Michael Courtney]

In the absence of a departmental of job-related mandate, everyone has to make their own choice. If you're willing to trade comfort for body armor in situations where you don't have a boss telling you to, then I will respect that decision.

What about those really lightweight vests that protect against pretty much just .22 and .32? Could those be practical, or does everyone think that
most of the incoming fire likely to be seen is 9mm and up?

It's a statistical fact that most criminal originating "incoming fire" is below 9mm. But even a vest which is not rated at 9mm has a good chance of stopping it if it has lost velocity penetrating an intermediate barrier (wall, auto glass, other person, etc.)

A person of my acquaintance was in the Army Signal Corps in Vietnam and was singled out for field interrogarion when captured because he was the only Signal Corps guy in the group. He reasoned correctly that his flack jacket would stop the interrogating officer's 32ish pistol bullet and he was able to win the ensuing wrestling match and escape.

I try not to make specific recommendations, but lay out the facts as best I can and let people make their own informed decisions. The lightweight vests that work well for 22-32 caliber pistol fire will also work a good portion of the time after a 9mm bullet has penetrated intermediate barriers that are not ordinarily considered cover. It would make an interesting experiment to test these vests performance on 9mm after different kinds of intermediate barriers: two layers of sheet rock, gelatin simulating upper arm thickness, auto glass, various thicknesses of sheet metal, etc.


Michael Courtney

 

[mindwip]

I could see useing a vest if you. No i dont own one, i do plan on buying one more for the fun of it when i have the money. I might wear it if sol cal becomes more dangerous to live in, i make lots of deliverys all over sol cal from LA to San Diego to Pasadena, and not always to the best areas.

Drive alot, for car crashes, for stops you have to make, for the poeple you meet i do remember cases were real estate people were shot and killed.

Person at bank/store/gas station/place of business open late

Firearm Ranges

Answering house calls late at night

Riots- i live in sol cal and we have had a few of those

These are all thing that can get you killed, its not a 1 in 1,000,000,000, its a good chance a vest will save you in those places. And i am not even talking about SHTF

Put it this way, add up the chance of a vest saving your life in a car crash, next add meeting people late at night ect, take all those chances dont look at them separate, sure it may be 1 in 1,000,000 for a car crash but add late night killings for delivery drivers in to that 1 in 1,000,000 and now you have a 1 in 500,000 chance of it saving your life, keep going intill you cover all the places it could save your life, i bet the odds dont look so long shot now.

 

[the naked prophet]

Thank you Michael Courtney, I was beginning to wonder if anybody could see my post...

Since you seem to be at least somewhat familiar with them, do they make them thin enough to wear as comfortably as a heavy t-shirt?

 

[TomFromTheShade]

Situationally if I think that something bad may go down where I will be then I will wear a IIA. I haven't ever worn my IIIA out in public. I just tried it on when I bought it, and leave it by the bed in case of home invasion. Most thugs will be carrying shotguns or pistols. Not many people get shot with rifles out and about in public.