Why 124 grain?

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Posted by wally: Penetration is proportional to bullet velocity times sectional density.
I did mention bullet shape and mass. Assuming the same material density, that would introduce sectional density into the balance, but since that would not be a good assumption it these days, it probably does not. So yes, we do need to mention sectional density. Good catch.

But there's more. I also mentioned bullet shape. You can have two 6.5MM bullets of the same mass, and they will have the same sectional density, by definition. The shape of the bullet will have a lot to do with penetration, just as the shape of an airplane fuselage will have a lot to do with drag, which will determine how far the plane will go when thrust goes to zero. Consider the also the shape of the bow of a boat, and how it will affect performance.

And then there's construction. A bullet with a full metal jacket will penetrate farther than an expanding bullet of the exact same shape, mass, diameter , and velocity. That's because the work required to expand the bullet slows it down; also, the increasing cross sectional diameter adds to the drag, or, if you will, the force acting against the bullet's forward travel.

And there's that pesky term work again. Work is energy--kinetic energy, thermal energy, potential energy, or any combination of the three. In the case of a non-explosive projectile impacting flesh, bone, stone, armor, or the dirt in a backstop and not bouncing off,, the energy starts out in the form of kinetic energy, which is not conserved i that inelastic collision, and is converted into the other forms.

It was work--i.e., energy-- that was required to get the bullet started in the first place, and it is work that determines the force and distance (also calculated as energy) required to stop it.

That's basic physics.

Now, variations in the way a particular bullet expands and in what is required to expand it might well prevent the penetration from being precisely proportional to the sure of the velocity, but it sure won't be directly proportional to the velocity.

It is important to realize that "penetration" is not simply defined by a distance in ballistic gel. One might be concerned with dirt or wall board, with metal prate, and with things that fracture, such as bone.

These days, a lot of munitions research his being directed toward very high kinetic energy non-explosive projectiles. The objective is deep penetration.

Just to broaden the discussion for the sake of illustration: the stopping distance of a car (lets consider one with a very low drag coefficient) is proportional to the square of the velocity (in a conventional car, all of the kinetic energy is converted to heat, but in a hybrid, some of it is turned into electrical energy); the drag on a plane is proportional to the square of the velocity, all other things being equal; and the compression of a spring impacted by a moving object is proportional to the square of the velocity. That means proportional to energy.

I hope that helps.
 
A 9 mm bullet of any weight can kill you! 9x17,9x18, and 9x19. That has been proven in European wars for the last 100 years.
 
Feed & cycle....

Speaking as a US Army veteran in a "MOS" where I wore a M9 9mmNATO everyday; four years active duty, I can honestly tell you feeding-cycles are very important to NATO troops.
The ball type 124gr FMJ 9mm made sense to me when I was in the military.
I got a box of Winchester 124gr FMJ NATO in 2011 when I purchased my M&P 9mm. I put the FMJs in my 2 spare magazines for the M&P. My regular load(home defense round) was the Golden Saber 124gr +P JHP.
Id ordered bonded Golden Saber JHPs but the low end web retailer sent me the wrong type of Remington Golden Saber 9x19mm. :mad:
 
I was just reading an encounter between a cop and a BG in which the cop was not able to incapacitate the BG even though the cop had scored 22 torso hits on the BG from his 40 caliber with premium hp ammo and 17 of the 22 rounds were center mass.

This encounter shows just how little energy dump from handguns means. it's all about placement.

here is the article
http://www.lawofficer.com/article/training/officer-down-peter-soulis-inci
 
Police incident....

I read the article & from what was printed, I think it was a question of tactics/plans than the poor performance of the .40S&W Winchester SXT JHPs.
:uhoh:
I agree that handguns even with premium ammunition or LE rounds are not 100% man-stoppers.
If I were a patrol officer or LE, Id transition to a shotgun or short barrel rifle if available.
Not all cops have the ability or resources to carry multiple weapons but the incident is a great example of why plans or training is important.

SIG's new MPX series with the sound surpressor & a red-dot/electronic sight would be useful in that event. The MPXs have different barrel lengths & can take different police calibers; .40/9x19mm/.357sig.
If like in the critical incident, a LE officer's sidearm runs out or a failure to stop occurs, the same extra rounds could work in either weapon.
 
Rusty shackelford i forgot to tell u my friend is using the 124gr gold dot ( no +p is allowed for some reason) with 4 15rd mags.
 
Lots of interesting information here...I have tried and tested a lot of 9mm ammunition and I hand load. My personal load is 124 gr. plated truncated flat noses run pretty hot.

Tried a lot of other stuff on a variety of media including gelatin and feel safest and the most confident with "the original" bullet weight for 9mm only I shoot plated lead instead of FMJ.

VooDoo
 
The Eastern European pistols are designed with relative short chambers that fit 124 gr Round Nose bullets very well. CZs and XDs are some examples

The typical 9mm/9x19 has a 1 in 10 twist rifling that works well for this 124gr weight and RN style bullet. I believe the 124gr eventually evolved in stages from the original cut-down rifle cartridges that used 121/122 grain bullets or so.

Logistically, standardizing the bullet weight for pistols and fully automatic 9mm weapons was a tactically smart thing to do for war.
 
The Russians use the 9 mm makarov with 95 gr FMJ. It works just fine. A 9mm with 115 gr FMJ is just fine.
 
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