Why 7.62 in sniper rifles?

[Ivy Mike]

Just a question that popped into my mind whilst surfing around.

Why does out military use the 7.62x51 as its preffered round for snipers? I know we field crazy things in .50, but those are mostly special purpose weapons.

Why not something larger and capable of greater distance?
Say something like a .338 Lapua or .300 WinMag?

What round, other than 7.62x51 would you like to load in your rifle for sniping duty? I won't place any restrictions on it, but if you post something odd, please be prepared to give a reason why.

My choice would probably be .300 WinMag. It carries more energy and velocity at 500 yards. Noise doesn't seem that bad and it will be harder to pick out at longer range.

 

[Commissar Gribb]

7.93x 57

 

[Snake Eyes]

Why does out military use the 7.62x51 as its preffered round for snipers?

Ummmm......NATO standard??

Just guessing....

 

[Ivy Mike]

NATO standard makes sense.

any picks for your caliber of choice?

 

[P95Carry]

I thought also in fact, per the shooting team useage - that the 300 Win Mag had it's place. May be wrong but that'd make an awesome sniper round.

 

[GunGoBoom]

I'd also choose the .300 win mag or other .300 mag. Maybe even a 6.5-284 Win - that's what a lot of 1k yard shooter pick.

 

[FRIENDLY]

Why use 7.62 .308

Simple answer is it is what we have. we are used to it and have developed good loads for and a sniper in the field if absolutely needs to can get extra ammo from the regular supply chain.It may not be the most accurate but will do the job.for longer range than 3-500 yards get a mortar, artillery or airstrike and finish the job. for police most shots would be under 200 yards are anything bigger wouldnt be needed

 

[Bob R]

With the deep pockets and ability to have barrels replaced, my vote goes for a 30-378 Weatherby Magnum.

I am looking for one now for me, a SAKO TRG-S would fit the bill very nicely.

bob

 

[voilsb]

IIRC, the standard sniper round is .300 WinMag. The snipers in my company use ... .50BMG.

So, what was that about using something bigger than 7.62NATO?

 

[Zak Smith]

7.62x51 has the following advantages:

1. ubiquitous
2. barrels last almost forever
3. adequate to 600-800 yards depending on target size

If you are going to change to a different caliber, it needs to have significantly more capability that 308. With regard to external ballistics that means: higher BC and/or higher velocity-- enough to make a big difference over 308.

Several militaries are going to 338LM as the primary sniper round. This makes sense because its bullets have BCs of 0.760.

 

[Eightball]

Why use 7.62 NATO? Maybe, just maybe, it's because there's millions of rounds out there already, it's NATO.....and because it will blow the heck out of human tissue upon impact. If it ain't broke (and it's widely available), why fix it?

 

[Ivy Mike]

I get the feeling that most snipers aren't going to be using 7.62NATO they pick up from a dead combatant. While it would work, they probably get better stuff.

I also don't think that the Army is going to want to deploy a mortar crew to do a snipers job. While it will kill people, snipers are used against different targets. Not really an interchangable force.

I understand that 7.62 is useful and does work against people. Other rounds (.338lapua or .300WinMag) do it better.

Commissar Gribb, why 8mm Mauser?

 

[Third_Rail]

30-06 with a little heavier bullet than .308 would be my pick. Not quite 300 WinMag, but nice nonetheless.

Worked for two world wars just fine so far, why change it?

That or use the .50BMG. Now THERE is a rifle cartridge.

 

[Ivy Mike]

.308 already turns in similar ballistics to .30-06 with a shorter case.
Hot loading it doesn't make much sense with things like .300 WinMag around.

.50BMG would be great, but thats a big rifle with big ammo and no match grade ammo available.

Just looked around and saw the .408 cheytac...any opinions there? Pretty big and really fast. Sounds like a great round although the rifles that shoot it are probably pretty big and heavy.

 

[Waffen]

With the deep pockets and ability to have barrels replaced, my vote goes for a 30-378 Weatherby Magnum.

This man knows of what he speaks!

30-378 or even 338-378 would be a much better than just about any .300 mag .338-378 also moves faster than .338 lapua.

 

[hillbilly]

Here are my answers.

1) 7.62X51 gets it done nicely out to 800 yards. A highly skilled shooter can make 1000 yard hits with that caliber.

2) Sniper skills are highly perishable, which means if you don't use them a lot, you lose them all. The 7.62X51 caliber is one that you can shoot and shoot and shoot and shoot all day long in practice without burning out a barrel or burning out a shooter.

I am not a sniper, nor do I pretend to be one.

I have attended 90 hours worth of precision shooting training at Badlands Tactical at Grandfield, OK. (Great place, great instructors, check them out!). And I think that's about 90 more hours of actual sniper-style shooting than most civilian rifle shooters get.

I know from personal experience that shooting 250 rounds of 7.62X51 from the prone position in a four-day course makes for a plenty sore shoulder by the end of the week.

And I know from personal experience that folks shooting .300 Win Mags or even bigger calibers in those classes had even MORE painful experiences than those of us shooting 7.62X51.

So, to help answer the question, go get yourself a .300 Win Mag or a .338 Lap Mag in a rifle that you could actually do low-crawl stalk with while wearing a ghillie suit. That means the rifle will weigh probably only 10 to 13 pounds realistically.

Then go shoot that sucker 250 times from prone and see how much fun it is, and how much you learn and retain after having your brains jolted and your shoulder and collar bone whacked 250 times.

hillbilly

 

[Fumbler]

Good answer hillbilly.

I don't think most of us understand that toting a rifle in a cartridge with significantly better performance than the 308 in the field isn't practical.

 

[Waffen]

While I understand shooting a heavier cartrige in training would be pretty bad, I can't imagine that shooting one in the feild would be much worse at all. Even if you shot 50 rounds in a day, it should still be very manageable to the guys trained to take these kind of shots.

I'm no sniper myself, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night, and I usually shoot 100-150 rounds of 30-06 a week (yes it makes me sore), and I would think it would not be that big of a deal.

 

[Too Many Choices!?]

Why .308? Because IT"S DAMN EFFECTIVE!

As has been stated, the cartridge can reach out and touch, at a realistic distance of 1000yds! the only real step up I would want to see after that is a .50BMG, you can keep the other magnums and such( just personal opinion)..

 

[C-grunt]

7.62 Works

Mt unit uses 7.62 for our snipers and they are very good with that round. They have had NO problems taking insurgents with it at reasonable distances. If they need a bigger round for a longer shot or a vehicle, they got the Barret for that.

And snipers are very good at (and have) called in mortars\arty on insurgents.

If they dont do that, they just call our Brads over with our thermals and 25mm. THAT gets the job done!!

 

[GW]

Its powerful, accurate, inexpensive (at least compared to the magnums) and in good supply
Plus there is a ton of ballistic info on the 7.62 x 51
Its a winner

 

[Feanaro]

"Who do they?" or "why don't they?" can usually be answered with "money". 7.62x51 is almost certainly less costly than the 300/30/338-whatever-it-is rounds. And barrel life is another consideration. It does the job for most of our needs. There might be better alternatives but an army marches on its wallet.

 

[1911 guy]

Some are using the .338

The standard remains the .308, and will, though, until something decidedly better comes along. The 7.63x51 can be loaded to ".06 performance and is routinely effective to 1k, if you want to call that routine. For the "long shots" the Barrett is coming into it's own in a big way. The .338 Lapua is gaining acceptance in some european armies and is edging out the .308 by a noticable margin, on paper anyway. Having said all that, I'll make the same statement others have made. I'm no sniper, just interested in long range shooting.

 

[cracked butt]

Another angle to look at:
The .300 WM has better ballistics than the .308, but the difference is barely noticeable until you start taking shots over 300 yards.

This is just a guess, I'm not a sniper or expert long range shooter or anything of that order, but I would guess that most sniper work is done within 300 yards rather than beyond it. We all hear about spectacular shots taken at 1000 or 1200 yards, but realistically, how often are shots like this taken, and do we only hear about the shots that hit their marks?

I hear the same arguments from inexperienced hunters who look at a ballistics chart and see that the 30-378 Weatherby would make the ideal elk or deer rifle for 800 yard shots, but all of them have never shot a 30-378 nor have seen a game animal at 800 yards, and in all likelyhood will never take a shot at game at more than 1/4 of that distance.

 

[AhmuqGB]

800m to 1000m is a respectable shot for a sniper(not talking designated marksmen) and 7.62 get's the job done at that range. Beyond that you are getting dicey with any system because of winds/barometric pressure/temperature etc. In my experience altough most people will claim .50s to have a far greater range, they lose accuracy at about the same 800-1000m mark for a point target(I qualify point in this case as a human size target) and are used beyond that for engaging vehicles and area targets. Saying we use it because of money is a cheat way out. Everything in the military/business community/government can be boiled down to dollars. If soldiers carry a smaller basic load becaus of larger bullets it increases the logistical support required/more loggies to move it(salaries for them) more shipments to move the same number of rounds(money) manufacturing costs(money) so yes it's because of money...but that is a factor of what we the tax payers are willing to put up with if you guys want the military in cooler stuff write your comgressman or woman and tell them you want to pay more taxes so the military can have cooler stuff...I'm all for that LOL