RUT
Member
I just picked up a Browning Citori Lightning in .410.... no reason.. just because. 
Why a 410 shotgun.
- Thread starter ms6852
- Start date
- Status
oasis618
Member
I'm not a shotgunner but do they sell light loads or short loads for a 12g that you could use in situations where less firepower is needed?
cougar1717
Member
Shooting a 410 is usually a humbling experience. Many people will try to label it as a youth gauge, but it really is an expert's gauge. There are competitive "subgauge" tournaments using 12, 20, 28, and 410. IMHO, the 410 is best used for static pests and varmints. I'm sure someone will say they hunt birds with a 410 all the time, but unless you are a really good shotgunner and want the challenge, there's aren't many good reasons to go below 20ga.
desidog
Member
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2008
- Messages
- 2,595
GigaBuist
Member
Yes, you can buy light loads for 12 gauge commercially. Funny thing is they cost more than the heavy loads w/ more shot and powder. Being able to run 7/8oz or 1oz loads at 1150fps-ish is the primary reason I bother with reloading shot shells.
oneounceload
member
Yes, but I can load mine even lighter - a 3/4 oz load in 12 gauge running about 1180 fps is as soft as shooting a .22 rifle when using a heavy target gun
JNewell
Member
Nice! Sometimes you should not ask "why?"
I don't really have a use for .410 but I do like the challenge of hitting clays with it. Might still get one ... just because, plus this could lead to a 28 gauge, than a 20 gauge. My wife asked the other day why so many guns, and I replied why do you have so many pans and basically use only one. She kept quiet, so this is the clue I needed to go ahead any buy another shotgun.
hardworker
Member
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2010
- Messages
- 301
I have a double barrel stevens 311 410 and it's a blast to shoot.
KevininPa
Member
I have a..
.......Snake Charmer that I've been using as a pest gun for ages. Cheap, groups well out to 20 yards, quick and easy to clean. Also have a Saiga for the wife. Still have to restore it back to its AK platform. Got a cheap Tapco fusion stock to shorten it up for her. That's her camp gun. And before all the " you should have gotten her a this because........ people" chime in, she has a pretty serious case of degenerative disc disease in neck. I'm surprised she goes shooting with me at all. The .410 in a semi platform has a pretty light recoil.
.......Snake Charmer that I've been using as a pest gun for ages. Cheap, groups well out to 20 yards, quick and easy to clean. Also have a Saiga for the wife. Still have to restore it back to its AK platform. Got a cheap Tapco fusion stock to shorten it up for her. That's her camp gun. And before all the " you should have gotten her a this because........ people" chime in, she has a pretty serious case of degenerative disc disease in neck. I'm surprised she goes shooting with me at all. The .410 in a semi platform has a pretty light recoil.
ThomasT
Member
I use to turn my nose up at the 410 mainly because of ammo cost. I still think the ammo could be made and sold cheaper than it is.
Last june I finally shot the Remington 22/410 combo gun I had bought the year before. I should have shot it sooner than I did. The 22s were fun and were suitably accurate but the 3" 410 was a big surprise. This gun came with 4 chokes and with the modified choke installed it was easy to hit a bean can at 25 yards and blow holes right through both sides.
I liked the first 410 so much I bought two Mossberg bolts and a New England single shot since june. Plus I figured out how to handload ammo with hand tools and a roll crimper. A box of 25 cost around $6.00 now. For me its even less because I was given 120 lbs of shot and 4 lbs of 2400 powder.
I have been clay bird shooting with it and have to admit a bigger guage is better for me. But for shooting small game that is stationary and you respect its limited range its a tough gun to beat. I like the lightweight ammo and light recoil. Plus I can load 3 ball buck loads that will stay in a tight group to past 15 yards and would make a good emergency self defense gun. Much better than bird shot anyways.
I wish we had something like Grouse and other chicken sized birds to hunt like you guys up north have. About all we have hear are Quail and Pheasants and I don't see many of them. I also credit reading Backwoodsman Magazine for my new enthusiasm for the 410 shotgun.
Last june I finally shot the Remington 22/410 combo gun I had bought the year before. I should have shot it sooner than I did. The 22s were fun and were suitably accurate but the 3" 410 was a big surprise. This gun came with 4 chokes and with the modified choke installed it was easy to hit a bean can at 25 yards and blow holes right through both sides.
I liked the first 410 so much I bought two Mossberg bolts and a New England single shot since june. Plus I figured out how to handload ammo with hand tools and a roll crimper. A box of 25 cost around $6.00 now. For me its even less because I was given 120 lbs of shot and 4 lbs of 2400 powder.
I have been clay bird shooting with it and have to admit a bigger guage is better for me. But for shooting small game that is stationary and you respect its limited range its a tough gun to beat. I like the lightweight ammo and light recoil. Plus I can load 3 ball buck loads that will stay in a tight group to past 15 yards and would make a good emergency self defense gun. Much better than bird shot anyways.
I wish we had something like Grouse and other chicken sized birds to hunt like you guys up north have. About all we have hear are Quail and Pheasants and I don't see many of them. I also credit reading Backwoodsman Magazine for my new enthusiasm for the 410 shotgun.
RUT
Member
Yeah, I agree... the ammo is a bit of a rip-off. I kinda gave up on reloading 12 & 20, but may have to break down and get a non-progressoive like a Sizemaster to do .410. Or, I may find out I'm not shooting it enough to make it worth my while.
I see some disagree in selecting this gauge as a home defense weapon but to me the ballistics on slugs seem quite impressive 1/4 ounce slug at 1800 fps is nothing to sneeze at. I'm thinking of the wife who is more delicate than I am. Winchester seems to have some great stuff for self defense. What are your thoughts?
http://www.winchester.com/Products/shotshell-ammunition/supreme-elite/pdx1410/Pages/S410PDX1.aspx
This look very formidable as well for a 410 gauge with extra shells for your liking:
http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/sh42-e.htm
http://www.winchester.com/Products/shotshell-ammunition/supreme-elite/pdx1410/Pages/S410PDX1.aspx
This look very formidable as well for a 410 gauge with extra shells for your liking:
http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/sh42-e.htm
Last edited:
thunder173
Member
My very first gun was a Mossberg Single Shot Bolt action in .410, with a modified choke,..I still have and use it occasionally,...and have acquired a few others over the years. Myself, my brothers and sisters, an ex-wife and my kids,... have have all used that .410 on many hunts,... from small game to deer.
It may not be the very best for any particular game,..but it's taken all I have used it for with success. And I am one that does not abide the crippling and letting go of game. Fortunately,...that has never been an issue,... for me at least.
It does have it's limits, but if you recognize what those limits are, and stay within them...the gauge can surprise you. Very soft shooting firearm for those that may need something that doesn't beat on you much,...smaller statured folks, and folks with medical issues especially.
Now having said that,..I don't think it makes a good first gun for a youth. A good 20 gauge,..though heavier in both recoil and report, ...would be a much better choice, and would be more versatile in its range of use,..and I have those as well.
But when I hit the woods for squirrel or rabbit,..one of the 410's is the most likely gun I'll be carrying.
The ability to choose is the spice of life. That's what makes life worth living.....
Just my 2 cents on it,....ymmv
It may not be the very best for any particular game,..but it's taken all I have used it for with success. And I am one that does not abide the crippling and letting go of game. Fortunately,...that has never been an issue,... for me at least.
It does have it's limits, but if you recognize what those limits are, and stay within them...the gauge can surprise you. Very soft shooting firearm for those that may need something that doesn't beat on you much,...smaller statured folks, and folks with medical issues especially.
Now having said that,..I don't think it makes a good first gun for a youth. A good 20 gauge,..though heavier in both recoil and report, ...would be a much better choice, and would be more versatile in its range of use,..and I have those as well.
But when I hit the woods for squirrel or rabbit,..one of the 410's is the most likely gun I'll be carrying.
The ability to choose is the spice of life. That's what makes life worth living.....
Just my 2 cents on it,....ymmv
ET
Member
I bought a Judge to play with and possibly for some PD. It really isn't as bad as the Judge haters would lead you to believe it is. For a multiple ammo gun the 45LC is accurate enough to hit what you want at 25 yards. The 410 buckshot is deadly at 5-10 yards. I sometimes use it in the car for defense since a blast of 000 buckshot or #4 shot in your face will make you think twice about carjacking somebody. I don't have to worry about bullets flying into another car and killing a child or something. If you load 3 410 shells and 2 45LC rounds then you can pretty much defend yourself from almost anything.
KevininPa
Member
RatShooter,
Could you tell me where you got that info on the hand reloading set and all the other information as to how to do it. We don't use the .410s enough to justify a reloading press, but if I could just make up some rounds while watching TV in the winter It would be great!
Could you tell me where you got that info on the hand reloading set and all the other information as to how to do it. We don't use the .410s enough to justify a reloading press, but if I could just make up some rounds while watching TV in the winter It would be great!
LibShooter
Member
My Father-in-law had lots of success shooting squab with his .410 SxS. Of course he had more than 50 years of experience with his gun.
His son and I went in to buy him a nice 20 gauge O/U for his birthday. He kept in a nice cabinet, shot clays with it and cleaned it all time. He only took it hunting once. He said his teeth couldn't take it; the 20 left too much shot in the birds!
If I decide on the 410 and decide to reload how many times can I use the 410 shells before I have to discard them? It seems that if you only use 13 grains of powder a pound will go a loooonnnnng way. I reload for 30-06, and 45acp and 357 magnum but have no experience with reloading for shotguns.
ThomasT
Member
The hull life will depend on the hull brand and how you finish off the crimp. The winchester hulls seem to be the best. The multi hulls are soft and will be used up in a couple of reloadings. Other brands are in between.
Kevininpa I just use the book data. As long as the payload weighs the same it doesn't matter if its shot or round balls you are loading. Like you I don't shoot 410 enough to warrent the cost of a $170+ Mec loader. So here is how I load my shells.
To resize I bought a 410 resizer cup from Mec ($10) and use a 3/8ths IIRC galvanized gas nipple about 4" long to drive the sizer over the brass base. You need a block or something bigger than the rim to drive the case into so the sizer will come back off the brass head. Do this operation first by the way or you will drive your new primer out of the case a little.
I punch the spent primer out with a punch. To reset a new primer you need a tube that will fit inside the shell. The primers stick up into the powder area so you can't use a solid rod like a wood dowel because you will never seat the primer.
If you are using new hulls and plan to roll crimp you can dump the powder, I use 2400 with a 1cc Lee dipper for everything (13.5grs). Next insert the wad then your load of shot. I use Lee dippers for the shot. If you dump #9 you need a smaller dipper than for #7.5 shot. You need to use a scale to see what dumps 11/16oz of shot.
Now you can install the overshot wad. then roll crimp. I get 25 shells ready then roll crimp. The crimper needs to be hot to work properly. That was one of my early problems. I would do one shell at a time and the roll crimper would cool off. I even preheat the roll crimper now with a lighter to get the ball rolling.
If you are shooting a single shot you can forget the roll crimp. Cut off the star crimp and at the end use the overshot wad and add glue to seal the case. I have made overshot wads from styrofoam meat trays and cut the wads with a 41 or 44 mag case. Drill out the flashhole to use a punch to drive out the wads and use a case chamfer tool to sharpen the case mouth. It is far easier to buy a bag of 500 OS wads for $7 and be done with it.
This is my simple Backwoodsman style reloading of the 410 shell. It ain't fast but it works surprisingly well. I hope I have described it well enough if you decide to try it. You can find new, primed hulls on GB if you watch. I bought 500 new Fiocchi hulls for $63 dollars. Those will last me a good long time. Thats the fastest way to get reasonably priced 410s to shoot.
Kevininpa I just use the book data. As long as the payload weighs the same it doesn't matter if its shot or round balls you are loading. Like you I don't shoot 410 enough to warrent the cost of a $170+ Mec loader. So here is how I load my shells.
To resize I bought a 410 resizer cup from Mec ($10) and use a 3/8ths IIRC galvanized gas nipple about 4" long to drive the sizer over the brass base. You need a block or something bigger than the rim to drive the case into so the sizer will come back off the brass head. Do this operation first by the way or you will drive your new primer out of the case a little.
I punch the spent primer out with a punch. To reset a new primer you need a tube that will fit inside the shell. The primers stick up into the powder area so you can't use a solid rod like a wood dowel because you will never seat the primer.
If you are using new hulls and plan to roll crimp you can dump the powder, I use 2400 with a 1cc Lee dipper for everything (13.5grs). Next insert the wad then your load of shot. I use Lee dippers for the shot. If you dump #9 you need a smaller dipper than for #7.5 shot. You need to use a scale to see what dumps 11/16oz of shot.
Now you can install the overshot wad. then roll crimp. I get 25 shells ready then roll crimp. The crimper needs to be hot to work properly. That was one of my early problems. I would do one shell at a time and the roll crimper would cool off. I even preheat the roll crimper now with a lighter to get the ball rolling.
If you are shooting a single shot you can forget the roll crimp. Cut off the star crimp and at the end use the overshot wad and add glue to seal the case. I have made overshot wads from styrofoam meat trays and cut the wads with a 41 or 44 mag case. Drill out the flashhole to use a punch to drive out the wads and use a case chamfer tool to sharpen the case mouth. It is far easier to buy a bag of 500 OS wads for $7 and be done with it.
This is my simple Backwoodsman style reloading of the 410 shell. It ain't fast but it works surprisingly well. I hope I have described it well enough if you decide to try it. You can find new, primed hulls on GB if you watch. I bought 500 new Fiocchi hulls for $63 dollars. Those will last me a good long time. Thats the fastest way to get reasonably priced 410s to shoot.
the iron horse
Member
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2007
- Messages
- 203
I always carry my 410 when I work around our small farm.
So far this summer I've killed three cooperheads and scared the
daylights out of a young doe who seemed to be heading toward our
okra patch.
Also a great gun for small game. The shot does not damage the meat
as much as a larger gauge.
So far this summer I've killed three cooperheads and scared the
daylights out of a young doe who seemed to be heading toward our
okra patch.
Also a great gun for small game. The shot does not damage the meat
as much as a larger gauge.
kimbernut
Member
.410
Both my BIL and a good friend had to go with .410 on quail as they tore up too much meat with 20 ga.
15 yard quail is one thing but 40 yard dove is an entirely different matter. There are an awful lot of holes in a .410 pattern at 40 yards- just not enough pellets IMHO.
I agree with the .410 is an experts gun on the skeet range. You need to hit 'em fast and be right on -no room for error. One thing is for sure if you can hit 'em with a .410 you can really nail them with a 20 ga.
Both my BIL and a good friend had to go with .410 on quail as they tore up too much meat with 20 ga.
15 yard quail is one thing but 40 yard dove is an entirely different matter. There are an awful lot of holes in a .410 pattern at 40 yards- just not enough pellets IMHO.
I agree with the .410 is an experts gun on the skeet range. You need to hit 'em fast and be right on -no room for error. One thing is for sure if you can hit 'em with a .410 you can really nail them with a 20 ga.
Ron Go
Member
I had a 410. You need to use 3" shells in this gauge or your range is very limited. The slugs are only good to approx 50 yards on deer. It is more a small fun gun but it is expensive to shoot compared with the 12 ga. The 12 is cheaper to shoot and can do anything from birds to moose.
- Status
