Why am I having these primer ignition issues?
- Thread starter lezmark
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As to those that claim that I'm wrong because they've never experienced a problem I say that that's like saying that oxygen doesn't exist because you can't see it, not experiencing something doesn't make it untrue.
Quote from Hodgdon
Quote from MCDONNELL DOUGLAS report MDC-AO514 (AD-AO92511)
Appendix A of the same report contains info from several primer manufacturers (Olin, Winchester, etc.) and on the average they state that the anvil needs to be compressed .002" to .006" in to the priming mix and further, they say that this can be achieved by compressing the primer cup until it contacts the bottom of the primer pocket.
au_prospector
Member
Two things, , ,
1) I did not see if the OP answered the question, "Did they go off once you rechambered the unfired round and pulled the trigger a second time?"
if so, then not seated deep enough and the primers in the picture look a little high to me. What do they look like prior to a firing attempt?
2) Second question would be if he tried to fire these rounds multiple times and they simply do not discharge, then that may indicate a crushed primer. I have a RCBS hand prime tool that will consistently crush primers in the small primer configuration if you squeeze too hard resulting in ruined primers/finished rounds.
1) I did not see if the OP answered the question, "Did they go off once you rechambered the unfired round and pulled the trigger a second time?"
if so, then not seated deep enough and the primers in the picture look a little high to me. What do they look like prior to a firing attempt?
2) Second question would be if he tried to fire these rounds multiple times and they simply do not discharge, then that may indicate a crushed primer. I have a RCBS hand prime tool that will consistently crush primers in the small primer configuration if you squeeze too hard resulting in ruined primers/finished rounds.
I seat all of my primers on a press (LCT) and have yet to have one fail to fire. (Approx 10K loaded). I also seem to be able to feel the primers bottom out in the cup as I give a firm push when seating. I have an Inline Fabrication ergo handle on my LCT so maybe it gives me more leverage and control than the standard "ball" handle--not sure. I have never crushed a primer simply by using too much pressure. Y'all must be alot stronger than me!
I have always promoted seating primers firmly because it is easy to leave one too high and hard to "crush" one to the point of damage that keeps it from firing. Obviously that is a feel thing and hard to describe for people over the internet. For hand seaters we can either adjust the depth with tools that have it, or vary the length of the seater rod to get it just about perfect when we use all the mechanical movement of the tool. I think many presses have an adjustment as well, so we can't crush them if adjusted properly. Dunno for sure. Having a mechanical stop is a great way to do it when priming in quantity. Either an adjustment or built into the primer mechanism.
Load Master
Member
I believe the important take-away here, for people new to reloading, YOU NEED TO FULLY SEAT THE PRIMER. New to reloading have a fear they could set off the primer if they push too hard.
I've been on forums where people believe it is more important to be flush or just below flush with the case head. Following this process it is possible to under seat a primer. This is one of the leading causes of misfires.
The primers are robust enough to take seating pressures. They are design to take heavy seating. The primer seat system on most any press is design to accommodate differences in primer pocket and primer cup dimensions. My point, if you are going to error, error on the side of over seating compared to under seating.
I've been on forums where people believe it is more important to be flush or just below flush with the case head. Following this process it is possible to under seat a primer. This is one of the leading causes of misfires.
The primers are robust enough to take seating pressures. They are design to take heavy seating. The primer seat system on most any press is design to accommodate differences in primer pocket and primer cup dimensions. My point, if you are going to error, error on the side of over seating compared to under seating.
macgrumpy,
hogdon seems rather vague in their method of seating a primer: not too deep, not too high,etc. they don't actually tell you how far to seat the primer. the mcdonald douglas appendix, however, tells us exactly how to seat a primer - to the bottom of the pocket - and why - to reconsolidate the components. thx for that.
don't be afraid to lean on that priming tool a bit to make sure the primer always goes to the bottom of the pocket. consistency is the name of the game, here.
murf
hogdon seems rather vague in their method of seating a primer: not too deep, not too high,etc. they don't actually tell you how far to seat the primer. the mcdonald douglas appendix, however, tells us exactly how to seat a primer - to the bottom of the pocket - and why - to reconsolidate the components. thx for that.
don't be afraid to lean on that priming tool a bit to make sure the primer always goes to the bottom of the pocket. consistency is the name of the game, here.
murf
When I looked at a primer and figgered out how it worked, I stopped worrying about "below flush measurements". I just make sure the primer is seated all the way to the bottom of the pocket. Period...
As long as the primer doesn't stick out above the case head I'm fine. Worked for me for prolly 30 years...
As long as the primer doesn't stick out above the case head I'm fine. Worked for me for prolly 30 years...
I agree, seat the primer cup all the way down but in order to ensure that the primer is being seated correctly I use a uniformer tool to make sure that the pockets are the same depth. If the primer cups are the same height and the pockets are the same depth then you should be able to achieve a consistently good primer reconsolidation/ preload.
OP
OP
lezmark
Member
That bullet pictured was actually struck twice as I mentioned in my first line. With all the great input here on this I am convinced they were not seated deep enough or properly. Of the "misfires", maybe 1/2 will fire on the second attempt. I think it all adds up to seating and having looked at my machine settings, I think we have found the answer. I am loading some up today and will be at the range for a test on Friday. I will share the results.
macgrumpy,
i, too, uniform all, even the three 9mm cases in my pics, primer pockets every time i prep cases. a lot of work but, for me, quite necessary.
murf
p.s. one of the big reasons i uniform all my primer pockets is to get rid of the rounded corner at the bottom and make sure it is nice and square.
i, too, uniform all, even the three 9mm cases in my pics, primer pockets every time i prep cases. a lot of work but, for me, quite necessary.
murf
p.s. one of the big reasons i uniform all my primer pockets is to get rid of the rounded corner at the bottom and make sure it is nice and square.
TheDomFather
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Curious if you clean your primer pockets before you seat the primers, i have never had this problem. I would say it could be your striker spring not being strong enough but if you are getting this in 3 different guns it sounds like they are not seated all the way, I would try making 10 rounds clean the primer pockets thoroughly use a primer pocket uniforming tool, I have an RCBS that I put into a cordless drill to use it then a RCBS primer pocket brush that I use afterwards if there is any residual soot in there which I also use in the drill. Im using CCI primers which are notoriously hard primers and have never had that issue.
Hondo 60
Member
+1.
If you're having to hit 'em twice to get it to ignite, that means the 1st hit is seating 'em properly.
The 2nd strike is firing them.
I don't know that I've ever run across a situation were it was even possible to seat 'em too deeply.
redbullitt
Member
I just had a similar issue the other day actually. I started using my progressive press since I have been shooting a lot more lately, nice weather and all. I was using my handpress for all priming. No issues, but as soon as I start using the progressive I am getting ftf on about 10 pct of my 9mms. My shell holder plate was simply not tight enough and allowed the primer to just not quite seat properly. Looks okay, but clearly not.
Tightened the plate up and no issues after that. My trouble came from loading equipment issues, and maybe yours does too!
Tightened the plate up and no issues after that. My trouble came from loading equipment issues, and maybe yours does too!
Seat them more on a single-stage or something. Gently but firmly. Maybe eyes and ears
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