Five-O
Member
I notice that many pictures that are posted of guns, especially semi-autos, show the hammer cocked. Why is that? Any particular reason? Safety reason?
Just curious
Eddie
Just curious
Eddie
Why are hammers cocked in pictures?
- Thread starter Five-O
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Rubber_Duck
Member
Because it makes the gun look like it's ready to get to work. It's the natural way. 
Quack
Member
if the hammer's not cocked it won't go "BANG!"
you can't be "locked" if it's not "cocked"
it's the only way to carry.
it show's off the hammer.
you can't be "locked" if it's not "cocked"
it's the only way to carry.
it show's off the hammer.
Notspartacus
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As The Duke said in "True Grit", "A loaded gun ain't much use if it ain't cocked."
(I'm going from memory on this...)
(I'm going from memory on this...)
Five-O
Member
Ok, let me get this right. I'm not too familiar with .45's. I have a SA 1911 but have yet to fire it. I will shoot it at our next club shoot.
Now, if I put a full magazine in, it's basically unable to fire until I pull back the slide and I chamber a round, right? Ok, at that point, at what position is the hammer? It's cocked, right? Is this the way a .45 is carried, with the hammer back? Why not close the hammer (carefully) and just cock it when you need to fire? I'm thinking that if you carry cocked, couldn't it go off when you unholster it? (you would have to be a real dumbkoff if it happened)
I don't carry my .45 (too heavy) I carry my .38 AirWeight, much lighter and concealable.
Comments?
Eddie
Now, if I put a full magazine in, it's basically unable to fire until I pull back the slide and I chamber a round, right? Ok, at that point, at what position is the hammer? It's cocked, right? Is this the way a .45 is carried, with the hammer back? Why not close the hammer (carefully) and just cock it when you need to fire? I'm thinking that if you carry cocked, couldn't it go off when you unholster it? (you would have to be a real dumbkoff if it happened)
I don't carry my .45 (too heavy) I carry my .38 AirWeight, much lighter and concealable.
Comments?
Eddie
41022collector
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Cocked and Locked with a round in the throat or chamber is in my view the only way to carry a .45 Colt or it's family of firearms. Since it is a semi-auto single action only pistol, the only way you have a chance against someone with a DOA or Double Action Only or DA, is to be locked, cocked and loaded. I carry my Para Warthog that way, any other way, you are either cocking on the draw or fumbling to pull the slide. It is just a natural reflex to thumb the safety as you are drawing and be ready to fire upon sight line up or from the hip shot.
The most accepted way of carrying a 1911, and the way commonly taught at the better schools of pistol craft like Gunsite and Thunder Ranch, is condition 1 (round chambered, hammer cocked and thumb safety engaged). There are a number of reasons why neither condition 2 (round chambered but hammer down) nor 3 (magazine loaded but chamber empty) is a preferred method of carrying a BHP or 1911 for self defense.
[1] You can't make an appointment for an emergency.
[2] In an emergency, you may need to deploy your weapon quickly.
[3] If you draw a BHP or 1911 in condition 2 or 3, until you can get it cocked, or cocked with a round chambered, you are holding a club (a small one at that).
[4] Condition 2 carry requires lowering the hammer manually on a live round. Also at least in my experience, cocking a BHP or 1911 with one hand on the draw stroke is not a particularly quick, graceful or efficient action. And in a high stress situation, your fine motor skills go south.
[5] From condition 2, you may be able to cock a BHP or 1911 quickly on presentation using the weak hand -- if you (1) practice and (2) have two hands available. From condition 3, you can quickly rack the slide Israeli fashion on presentation -- if you (1) practice and (2) have two hands available.
[6] Since when and how an emergency may happen are, by definition, unpredictable, you can't assume that you will have two hands available.
For these reasons condition 1 is generally regarded as the preferred way to carry a BHP or 1911 for defensive purposes.
I've trained at hot ranges where everyone wearing a 1911 carried in it that way. And indeed those with whom I've trained who routinely go about in public armed with a 1911 would not consider carrying a 1911 in any other way. I've not heard of mishaps arising from that mode of carry. And it would be the same, no doubt, with a BHP.
The BHP and 1911 are at heart fighting guns. When either is carried about in the course of one's normal business, it is carried as a tool for fighting if necessary. As such it is appropriate to carry it in the manner in which it can most efficiently serve that role. And that manner is condition 1, if for no other reason than that is the only method of carry from which it can be quickly, effectively, efficiently and safely deployed with only one hand.
When the shoe drops circumstances may require that one's weapon be deployed quickly with one hand. Perhaps the other is needed to ward off an attack, to displace an obstacle or to assist someone to safety; or perhaps you're carrying your groceries at the time.
[1] You can't make an appointment for an emergency.
[2] In an emergency, you may need to deploy your weapon quickly.
[3] If you draw a BHP or 1911 in condition 2 or 3, until you can get it cocked, or cocked with a round chambered, you are holding a club (a small one at that).
[4] Condition 2 carry requires lowering the hammer manually on a live round. Also at least in my experience, cocking a BHP or 1911 with one hand on the draw stroke is not a particularly quick, graceful or efficient action. And in a high stress situation, your fine motor skills go south.
[5] From condition 2, you may be able to cock a BHP or 1911 quickly on presentation using the weak hand -- if you (1) practice and (2) have two hands available. From condition 3, you can quickly rack the slide Israeli fashion on presentation -- if you (1) practice and (2) have two hands available.
[6] Since when and how an emergency may happen are, by definition, unpredictable, you can't assume that you will have two hands available.
For these reasons condition 1 is generally regarded as the preferred way to carry a BHP or 1911 for defensive purposes.
I've trained at hot ranges where everyone wearing a 1911 carried in it that way. And indeed those with whom I've trained who routinely go about in public armed with a 1911 would not consider carrying a 1911 in any other way. I've not heard of mishaps arising from that mode of carry. And it would be the same, no doubt, with a BHP.
The BHP and 1911 are at heart fighting guns. When either is carried about in the course of one's normal business, it is carried as a tool for fighting if necessary. As such it is appropriate to carry it in the manner in which it can most efficiently serve that role. And that manner is condition 1, if for no other reason than that is the only method of carry from which it can be quickly, effectively, efficiently and safely deployed with only one hand.
When the shoe drops circumstances may require that one's weapon be deployed quickly with one hand. Perhaps the other is needed to ward off an attack, to displace an obstacle or to assist someone to safety; or perhaps you're carrying your groceries at the time.
No, not if you get proper training in presenting a gun from the holster and adhere to rule 3 and keep your finger off the trigger and outside the trigger guard until the gun is on target and you are actually going to fire it.Five-O said:
cyclopsshooter
Member
perhaps the person removed the mag and racked the slide to make sure the weapon was safe for the photo shoot and didnt think to lower the hammer
Because it looks cool. And that's reason enough.
Fiddletown just put together on one of the best posts on the board this week. There are very limited reasons why you would want to carry the 1911 in Con. 2 or 3 - they do exist, but they are limited. His post was thorough and informed without being dismissive that other modes of 1911 carry do exist. Some folks just insist they actually AREN'T options - as if they can just will them out of existence! Good job, fiddletown.
yongxingfreesty
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looks meaner duh! lol
Quiet
Member
Single-action semi-auto pistols (1911/BHP/etc.) are designed to be carried "cocked and locked".
That is the way the 1911 is suppose to be safely carried.
If you want to carry it with the hammer down, it would be safer to do it with an empty chamber.
At that point you can engage the safety and it will be "cocked & locked".Five-O said:
That is the way the 1911 is suppose to be safely carried.
It is more unsafe to decock it and carry a 1911 hammer down on a live round.Five-O said:
If you want to carry it with the hammer down, it would be safer to do it with an empty chamber.
MythBuster
member
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Anyone healthy person with the IQ over that of a grasshopper can be taught to safely decock a 1911.
Also once the hammer is down the gun is as safe or safer than cocked and locked.
The 1911 was originally designed to be carried hammer down on a live round.
Cocked and locked carry did not become popular until years later.
Also once the hammer is down the gun is as safe or safer than cocked and locked.
The 1911 was originally designed to be carried hammer down on a live round.
Cocked and locked carry did not become popular until years later.
REAPER4206969
Member
Wrong.
War Department said:
OurSafeHome.net
Member
MythBuster should try dropping his condition two .45 on to a hard surface, hammer first a few times...
Thanks, Oro.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
You could do that until the hammer spur wore down to a nub, and the gun would not fire.
The 1911 uses an inertia firing pin.
It is shorter then the hole in the slide it rests in.
In Condition 2, the hammer is at rest on the back of the slide, and any impact is absorbed by the slide, not the firing pin.
rc
benderx4
Member
Didn't we just recently have a thread on here about a highly experienced shooter who shot a 45 through his roll-top desk after "attempting" to de-cock it himself?
Yep, probably 999 out of 1000 times you can do it safely.
Yep, probably 999 out of 1000 times you can do it safely.
1858rem
Member
i was reading about the rock island armory type 1911 possibly going off if you droped it recently in a thread where the guy accidentally shot his bathroom
Gunfighter123
Member
In Cond #2 --- if the hammer is dropped/struck with enough force , it can shear the half cock "notch" on the hammer and the gun will fire.
The late great Col. Jeff Cooper sited MANY instances of this and that is why he insisted on Cond. #1 or in a very rare case Cond. #3 as the Mossad did.
The late great Col. Jeff Cooper sited MANY instances of this and that is why he insisted on Cond. #1 or in a very rare case Cond. #3 as the Mossad did.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
You are correct about the intercept notch.
But if the gun is on the "half-cock" or "safety" or more correctly the intercept notch,
it is not in Condition 2.
Condition 0 - A round is in the chamber, hammer is cocked, and the safety is off.
Condition 1 - Also known as "cocked and locked," means a round is in the chamber, the hammer is cocked, and the manual thumb safety on the side of the frame is applied.
Condition 2 - A round is in the chamber and the hammer is down.
Condition 3 - The chamber is empty and hammer is down with a charged magazine in the gun.
Condition 4 - The chamber is empty, hammer is down and no magazine is in the gun.
There is no condition for carrying a 1911 on the intercept notch, because as you say, it would be very dangerous.
The only danger of Condition 2 is if your thumb slips off the hammer while lowering it, or cocking it while the trigger is pulled.
rc
But if the gun is on the "half-cock" or "safety" or more correctly the intercept notch,
it is not in Condition 2.
Condition 0 - A round is in the chamber, hammer is cocked, and the safety is off.
Condition 1 - Also known as "cocked and locked," means a round is in the chamber, the hammer is cocked, and the manual thumb safety on the side of the frame is applied.
Condition 2 - A round is in the chamber and the hammer is down.
Condition 3 - The chamber is empty and hammer is down with a charged magazine in the gun.
Condition 4 - The chamber is empty, hammer is down and no magazine is in the gun.
There is no condition for carrying a 1911 on the intercept notch, because as you say, it would be very dangerous.
The only danger of Condition 2 is if your thumb slips off the hammer while lowering it, or cocking it while the trigger is pulled.
rc
Jim Watson
Member
Back when USGI 1911s were "Army Surplus" instead of "Significant Historical Artifacts" and "Valuable Collectors' Items", I abused mine by dropping it from head height on a vinyl tile floor in various conditions and orientations. With a primed case in the chamber, not a live round. The primer did not pop and had only a faint mark, less than what you get when ejecting a live round from an AR. I quit worrying about the drop hazard.
There are a lot of accounts of dropped guns going off that are actually coverups for more serious negligence, or even crime. I know of a case of a gunshot wound reported as an AD of a dropped Remington pattern double derringer. And a Remington pattern derringer IS a serious risk of firing if dropped. But this instance was most likely a domestic dispute covered up by a party knowledgeable about the gun.
There are a lot of accounts of dropped guns going off that are actually coverups for more serious negligence, or even crime. I know of a case of a gunshot wound reported as an AD of a dropped Remington pattern double derringer. And a Remington pattern derringer IS a serious risk of firing if dropped. But this instance was most likely a domestic dispute covered up by a party knowledgeable about the gun.
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