Why Are Range Officers Armed?

[carpettbaggerr]

It is quite possible that what he did could be considered assault.

Yep, depending on state laws. New York State would consider it menacing in the 2nd degree, a class A misdemeanor:

120.14 Menacing in the second degree.
A person is guilty of menacing in the second degree when:
1. He or she intentionally places or attempts to place another person
in reasonable fear of physical injury, serious physical injury or death
by displaying a deadly weapon, dangerous instrument or what appears to
be a pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, machine gun or other firearm

Regardless of the specific charge, I'm quite certain he committed a crime in any state.

Someone should have called the cops right away. Probably should have said something, as in " Hey! ***! You going to shoot him for firing too quickly?"

Is the four second "rule" even posted anywhere?

You should certainly write a letter to the range, and I would never shoot there when this RO is present.

 

[sicario103]

BetaShooter-

You should rat him out with the owner. 1. he's a danger (pathetic as it may be). And 2. Why should you trouble yourself in finding a different range because of some wanna be tough guy moron. Hell, and especially in front of your kid. Personally, if some coward scum did that (unfasten his holster clip and put his hand on his gun) I would have stood up and fronted him right there and then so the owner or manager gets involved and hopefully fire his butt. lol 4 sec rule.... and for a .22 ROFL imagine having a AR.... how boring and pointless that would be....

LOL he's worst then a rental cop.... I hate those people that think they are all that because they got a gun or because they have some sort of limited authority (RO).

By the way, was the RO a young guy? Because some of them have this overexxagerated grandeur complexity about themselves... well at least at some of the rangers that I been in.

 

[cbsbyte]

I never understood how clubs like this could even exist. I would never shoot at a range that one had to count between shots. Whats next one round per magazine. If they are that anal they should only allow single shot rifles or blackpowder. The whole armed range officers is a scary idea. Why does one need to be armed to over see a range? Do they where black uniforms? This guy seems to have major mental issues, and I personally would not shoot at that club.

 

[Logan5]

That's a really bad scene. If it's not criminal conduct, it's at least a few torts, probably common law assault and IIED. I'd get the Range Officer's name and report him to the NRA at least; guys like that get ranges bankrupted in civil suits and the land sold to condo developers. It's not a good business practice to be seen threatening to throw down on your customers for irritating you.

 

[strambo]

This guy is a loon as demonstrated by his actions. I do find it quite ironic that there is a debate, on a RKBA board no less, over whether a Range Officer should be the only unarmed person in the area?

What happened to "it's the person that matters, not the mere presence of a gun?"

 

[dragongoddess]

seems to me the RO threatened the other person by stepping back ,loosing the strap and placing his hand on his weapon. In my eyes that was a serious threat. Wasn't spoken but it was still a threat.

 

[swingset]

I wouldn't step foot on a range that had a 4 second rule.

 

[KD5NRH]

I definitely agree with swearing out a complaint; give the facts, and let the DA decide what it is.

As far as the four second rule goes, my favorite range around here pretty much doesn't care. I asked the owner one time (he gives SMG classes, so I figured it would be OK to rapid fire) and he pretty much told me that as long as I'm not missing the berm, (they have huge berms - I doubt I could go over without rapid firing a .44Mag, and all the pistol ranges are bermed on three sides) and nobody comes to him with a legitimate complaint, he just figures that the faster I shoot, the more ammo I'll buy from him, and the more I learn, the more likely I am to keep renewing my annual membership.

Of course, it helps that I try to avoid sharing a range with anyone I'm not familiar with, and since they have three suitable pistol ranges, that's usually pretty easy to manage.

 

[mike101]

This RO sounds like a real nutcase. If I didn't call the cops, I would, at the very least, tell his boss. I would also tell his boss that I wouldn't come there again until they got rid of this guy. People hate losing money.

I never heard of a four second rule. As long as someone is taking the time to aim between shots, that should be slow enough. What's the point of having a semi-auto or DA revolver if you can't see what you can do with it? Isn't that what ranges are for? Practice?

This RO sounds unstable. People like him are the reason why many people feel that not everyone should be able to carry a gun. I think it's just a matter of time before this schmuck shoots someone. I'd be afraid to go back to this place, especially with my kid.

 

[Finch]

Stupid rules and superiority complex laden RO are the main reason I shoot in the desert. You don't have to deal with asinine rules like 2, 3, or 4 seconds between shots, no head shots, etc.

I feel sorry for people who's only resort is to shoot at a range!

 

[Molon Labe]

The .22 shooter was threatened with deadly force by a range officer with a huge authority complex. The RO is unquestionably unstable, and should be formally charged under state laws.

If a RO did this to me, my lawyer and I would soon own the shooting range.

Stop screwing around, BetaShooter. This is a serious matter. If you do nothing, an innocent person is likely to be hurt or killed. You have a moral responsibility to report this incident.

 

[Deanimator]

I don't have a problem with range officers being armed. When I was an OPFOR instructor in Korea in '81, I met the OIC of the range where the Muslim guy went off and started shooting people. You never know what might happen.

On the other hand, I think the range rules were ludicrous to the point of preventing somebody from shooting practice for NRA competitions. The range officer himself may have committed a crime. I wouldn't belong to such a range.

 

[Donnchaid]

Looking at it from both sides

I have a couple of questions about the way this went down.
1. Where was the .22 when the shooter stood up?
2. What degree of beligerence was displayed when the shooter stated "Are you timing me? For chrissakes, it's a .22 and I'm not being unsafe, I'm taking controlled shots"

Having answers to this would be necessary before I could form an opinion. I know that we all want to think well of our fellow shooters But I know some that could have been in this story and I might have unsnapped in R.O. position depending on the answers to the above questions.

 

[Glockster35]

BetaShooter,

I am sure that you can see, we all pretty much agree on contacting the management of the establishment.

I have to disagree with anyone who said you should have drawn down on the range official though. I don't think it was at all warranted. Now had he continued in removing his firearm from the holster, that would be a much different situation. But it didn't hapopen, so I will leave it alone.

As for the 50 year old victim in this case, if you know who he is, you might want to talk to him about signing a complaint, otherwise the only thing you can do is talk to the management, and refuse shoot at their range until he is removed from employment.

I truely hope you will talk to the management, be calm and civil about it, and simply explain you are concerned for the safety of the other patrons, as well as yourself. Refrain from using words like Nazi...etc! :banghead:

 

[Axman]

In AZ this would be a misdemeanor disorderly conduct if anything. According to AZ Revised Statue 13-2904, A. A person commits disorderly conduct if, with intent to disturb the peace or quiet of a neighborhood, family or person, or with knowledge of doing so, such person:
6. Recklessly handles, displays or discharges a deadly weapon or dangerous instrument.

And drawing attention to a holstered firearm would be displaying.

 

[BetaShooter]

I will contact the owner\manager of the establishment. If there was an incident involving this RO in the future, and I had not contacted them... Well, I would'nt want that on my conscience. Karma and whatnot.

As some asked, the .22 shooter put the safety on his gun and set it on the bench, muzzle downrange. I believe the gun was also out of ammo as he reloaded the magazine immediately after the incident. I also don't know him, I have seen him at the range before though.

Also, I didn't mean to imply that the RO doesn't have the right to carry. They most certainly do. However, do they need to openly carry? If the RO had been carrying concealed, then he couldn't have so easily intimidated the shooter. Open carry allowed him to escalate the situation in a hurry. Though, after some consideration, it probably wouldn't have mattered, the guy was clearly out of control. I have often wondered about open carry at gun shows, gun shops, and ranges. How do these people open carry without the proper LEO, or equivalent, licensing?

 

[Guy B. Meredith]

I've personally worked three different ranges and would consider this RO to be unqualified, legal action or not. I would not patronize any range that had such an individual working there.

None of the line ROs at any range I frequent carry. I do know that the Range Master at one carrys, but the line ROs do not.

 

[Ohio Rifleman]

I don't know all the legal mumbo jumbo if it was "brandishing" or "assault" or whatever. All I know is that the range officer was WRONG. His behavior was dangerous and irresponsible and should never be allowed around firearms again. Unless our 50-something shooter was actually threatening the RO with his .22, the RO was acting dangerous and belligerent. I do think that if the RO had actually unholstered his pistol, he would have been shot. Us gunnies take self-defense very seriously.

All in all, I think you should do everything you can to see this guy is punished either by the range owner or by the law. Preferably both, though that may not be possible. Definitely get in contact with the range owner and tell that person you won't be going back to the range until the irresponsible RO is fired or otherwise dealt with. And then contact the police to see if you can take some kind of legal or civil action against this dangerous clod.

 

[DRMMR02]

That RO sounds like a real ###hole. But here's a "what if" for you to consider.

What if from his point of view, he was going on the defensive. He confonts a guy breaking the(stupid) rules on his range. Instead of just complying, the guy argues. And it being a firing range, the guy has a gun in his hand. Say you're the RO and you're in this situation, wouldn't putting your hand on your weapon even things out? Couldn't that be construed as setting yourself up for defensive action?

It's unlikely, but something to consider.

 

[neoncowboy]

The Range Officer went to far when he unsnapped his holster, and placed his hand on his weapon. Doing so definitely held the implication that lethal force would be used if the shooter did not back down in a verbal confrontation.

Maybe he's a police officer or retired LEO.

 

[The Grand Inquisitor]

When the RO unsnapped his holster strap, he made an offensive gesture, and he is very lucky he was not dealing with someone who took that gesture seriously because at the least the RO could have gotten seriously beaten up, and at worst, there could have been a pointless gun fight.

While I do think it is OK for gunstore owners/RO's to be armed due to the potential for crazy/stupid people with guns using them, but I've found that quite a few people who are allowed to carry a pistol under these conditions use that pistol and EXTREMELY limited authority to bully people around.

This RO was simply trying to bully this guy in the way that he could, and he got away with it.

Remember what happened to Scott Farkus in "A Christmas Story"...?

 

[Sistema1927]

Four seconds between shots ? ?

I guess that they don't have any "action" competitions there!

The RO was a Class A jerk. I would have packed up, left, and contacted the owner to tell him exactly why I would never come back.

 

[Helstrm]

I would have taken that as a threat and called the Police.

 

[Kharn]

Four second rule? Good lord. I'd feel like a complete moron standing around with a gun in my hand and muttering "one one thousand, two one thousand..."

I would be very inclined to loudly count to "four mississippi" after every shot if that were my range. But sometimes I might fire somewhere around "four mississi*BANG!*"

Kharn

 

[GungHo]

Ranger Officer: "If I witness you rapid firing again, I will remove you from the range" tenses up and steps back a little and un-snaps the thumb strap on his holstered pistol, then rests his hand on it.
Shooter: "Give me a break, are you serious?"
Range Officer: "I said 4..."

"THERE MUST BE. FOUR. SECONDS."

I'm all for enforcing the rules, but that's a little... odd. However, I'd have just left and not gone back. It wouldn't be the first range I left due to retardation, though that's mostly been for ranges that weren't policed, rather than over policed.