Why are some pistols more accurate than others?
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First, you have to consider the entire mechanical "system" -- and that includes the shooter that is attached to the other end. Some guns will induce more inherent accuracy just because of how they are manufactured...tolerances, "play", etc. But in the end, it's all about how a particular guns works with the individual.
Personally, I've never found my Sig to be inherently "more accurate" than any of my other pistols. In fact, it's probably at the lower end of the scale...for me. My CZ's, Walthers and even my Rock Island Armory 1911 are more accurate (in my hands).
So I'm not sure I agree that any particular brand is more accurate...although some may have an edge on the ergonomics and manufacturing that make them perform well in a larger percentage of the shooting population's hands.
Jim
Personally, I've never found my Sig to be inherently "more accurate" than any of my other pistols. In fact, it's probably at the lower end of the scale...for me. My CZ's, Walthers and even my Rock Island Armory 1911 are more accurate (in my hands).
So I'm not sure I agree that any particular brand is more accurate...although some may have an edge on the ergonomics and manufacturing that make them perform well in a larger percentage of the shooting population's hands.
Jim
Jamie C.
Member
Because sometimes, the witchdoctor at the factory, that puts the accuracy spell on the guns, has better days than others. 
One example of a "good day" gun that I used to own was an old Llama .380... one of the "mini-1911" jobs...
It absolutely rattled... didn't seem like anything locked up the same way twice. But it would drop every round into a palm-sized group out to about 30 yards, off hand, every time.
It also never malfunctioned while I owned it, nor did it seem to be ammo sensitive. It's only real ailment was that the right grip panel kept cracking at the screw hole.
I finally sold it, for reasons I don't even remember... Wish I hadn't.
J.C.
One example of a "good day" gun that I used to own was an old Llama .380... one of the "mini-1911" jobs...
It absolutely rattled... didn't seem like anything locked up the same way twice. But it would drop every round into a palm-sized group out to about 30 yards, off hand, every time.
It also never malfunctioned while I owned it, nor did it seem to be ammo sensitive. It's only real ailment was that the right grip panel kept cracking at the screw hole.
I finally sold it, for reasons I don't even remember... Wish I hadn't.
J.C.
MCgunner
Member
Within any one model of firearm, you have some more accurate than others. I went through four .357 DA 4" revolvers before I found one that shot super accurate with both .357 and .38 special. Some worked with .38, some worked with .357, but my Taurus M66 is 1" at 25 yards accurate with both, so I kept it. Another M66 might not shoot, actually LIKELY wouldn't shoot as well. I think I got lucky. But, if you want something, sometimes you just have to be persistent.
Over the years, I've kept the guns whose accuracy met my standards for the gun and sold the ones that didn't. It's not my ONLY qualifier for a keeper, but one of the major ones along with reliability. I like accurate guns.
But, if you want something, sometimes you just have to be persistent.Over the years, I've kept the guns whose accuracy met my standards for the gun and sold the ones that didn't. It's not my ONLY qualifier for a keeper, but one of the major ones along with reliability. I like accurate guns.
Cousin Mike
Member
+100.
I asked my gunsmith that same question a while back, when I wanted to sell my 1911. I couldn't hit anything with it at further than 10 yards. He ensured me that even though it's a lower end 1911, there was nothing wrong with the accuracy or sights. I'm obviously not the guy at the range punching one ragged hole in 3" targets at 50 yards but for self defense applications, under 50ft., I am very confident in my abilities w/a pistol. He told me to go back and practice with it. Having seen my gunsmith shoot, I decided it would be a good idea to take his advice.
After really concentrating on my shooting techniques and habits, I found my 1911 to be just as accurate as my Sigs, or any other gun I've owned for that matter. The razorblade sights and lack of a beavertail don't particularly help me shoot it very accurately because it can get uncomfortable to shoot after a while. Quite frankly it kicks a hell of a lot harder than my other .45, it rubs a raw spot into the web of my hand when it kicks, and in the low light of an indoor range I can barely see the damned sights most of the time. After 200 rounds, my hand stings like hell and I'm tired of shooting the damn thing. That makes it a good weapon for me to train with, IMO, because I have to really mind my shooting habits in order to be accurate with it, rather than relying on night-sights and my faith in brand-name accuracy. It wasn't the weapon, it was my confidence in myself with the weapon. It was recoil anticipation, flinching, and fatigue. Not the gun. Sticking with my 1911 has made me much more accurate with my other pistols.
Any pistol of decent quality is going to be more accurate than the person shooting it 99% of the time. Practice, practice, practice.
bluto
Member
Cousin Mike and Navy87Guy took the words right ot of my mouth. In every instance that I've had a gun that was inaccurate and inconsistant it's been me, not the gun. After you get past the fundamentals, I think a lot of accuracy is psychological. If you think you can, you will. If you don't believe in your firearms ability, you won't shoot well with it. I believe that most modern production firearms are capable of minute-of-shooter. I've read many times on the forums of guys just like me who've given up on a gun only to have another shooter take that same gun and drill some bullseyes with it. After seeing that it can be done we seem to be able to "find" the accuracy ourselves.
makarovnik
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Million dollar question
Boy, there are so many possible answers to that question. Some rounds are inherently accurate because of the speed and or weight of the bullet. Some rounds I have good luck with are:.22lr, .380acp, .45acp and .44mag. Some rounds I don't do as well with are 9mm and .38 special. I also seem to do best with semi-autos with a fixed barrel system (straight blow-back). Lock up is not a problem because the barrel is bolted to the frame. I've noticed most good .380acp pistols are accurate even if the barrel to slide fit is loose. I like the trigger on a good old single action auto like the 1911, but it's important that it has a good lock-up every time. I've seen lots of 1911's where you can see the slide hitting the edge of the barrel hood at lock-up, that's not good. One thing that can hurt accuracy every time is a heavy trigger pull on a light gun. Some revolvers suffer accuracy problems when the bullet leaves the cylinder and jumps the gap into the forcing cone. Usually this isn't a problem on a high quality revolver like a S&W or a colt with a good cylinder lock-up. The only answer to what works good for you is to try several types of handguns in several calibers. My local range has probably 50+ different rental guns available at any one time. I really like shooting a medium size .380 but the round is marginal for self defense.
Boy, there are so many possible answers to that question. Some rounds are inherently accurate because of the speed and or weight of the bullet. Some rounds I have good luck with are:.22lr, .380acp, .45acp and .44mag. Some rounds I don't do as well with are 9mm and .38 special. I also seem to do best with semi-autos with a fixed barrel system (straight blow-back). Lock up is not a problem because the barrel is bolted to the frame. I've noticed most good .380acp pistols are accurate even if the barrel to slide fit is loose. I like the trigger on a good old single action auto like the 1911, but it's important that it has a good lock-up every time. I've seen lots of 1911's where you can see the slide hitting the edge of the barrel hood at lock-up, that's not good. One thing that can hurt accuracy every time is a heavy trigger pull on a light gun. Some revolvers suffer accuracy problems when the bullet leaves the cylinder and jumps the gap into the forcing cone. Usually this isn't a problem on a high quality revolver like a S&W or a colt with a good cylinder lock-up. The only answer to what works good for you is to try several types of handguns in several calibers. My local range has probably 50+ different rental guns available at any one time. I really like shooting a medium size .380 but the round is marginal for self defense.
Michael Zeleny
member
In the semiautomatic pistol pattern pioneered by John Moses Browning, of the reciprocating slide carrying the sights and enclosing a (fixed or tilting) barrel, the consistency of barrel alignment in battery, to the sights mounted on the slide, is the single most crucial factor in determining practical handgun accuracy. Since in the M1911 design, the slide requires a removable bushing, its muzzle end barrel play can be readily controlled by hand fitting this part to minimal tolerances. Similarly, fitting the appropriately sized swinging link that controls the travel of the barrel through the recoil cycle enables the M1911 to be tuned for maximum precision of breech lockup to the slide lugs. But the extra clearances between the slide and the bushing and those between the swinging link and its pins adversely affect the consistency of barrel alignment to the slide.
These considerations motivated the development of the Colt Series 70 collet bushing design, which controlled the muzzle end of the barrel with self-sprung fingers. Unfortunately, it was plagued by breakage issues. Today, a similar effect might be achieved with spherical barrel bushings pioneered by Briley and popularized by Smith and Wesson, or flared bull barrels fitted directly to bushingless slides.
The problem of extra clearances was solved more definitively in the final pistol design to incorporate Browning’s contribution, the Hi-Power or Grand Puissance (GP), completed by the FN engineer Dieudonné Saive, later renowned for work on the FN FAL. Saive superseded the M1911 removable spare part with a bushing permanently pinned into the slide. The GP35 also dispensed with the pivoting barrel link used to tilt the barrel in the recoil stroke of the M1911 in favor of a camlock ramp bearing against a steel lug staked into the frame. Most subsequent Browning pattern pistol designs incorporated both of these features.
The SIG P210 was a considerable refinement of the Browning design, as it had been further developed by Saive, Fedor Tokarev, and Charles Petter. Whereas the bushing fixing the barrel at the muzzle end and the link controlling its travel through the recoil cycle enabled the M1911 to be tuned for maximum precision of barrel lockup to the slide, the integral slide and barrel cam on the P210 achieved better lockup consistency in forgoing the flexibility by dispensing with these extra parts.
The P210 is sometimes acclaimed for making a design contribution in its inverted slide rail arrangement. But this ostensibly novel arrangement duplicates the receiver to frame interface of the previous Swiss service pistol, the Georg Luger-designed Parabellum, equally known for its superlative accuracy. The M1911 slide rails face outwards of the frame. The GP35 improves on this by having two sets of rails, the inner and the outer. Given equal clearances, the end-to-end length of slide rails is the most important factor in the alignment of the slide to the frame. In the final version of the GP35, Saive nearly doubled the slide-to-frame engagement of the M1911. The P210 design has nearly twice the rail engagement of the GP35. Thanks to this feature, the Swiss pistol combines superior slide alignment with sufficient working clearances.
Mechanical accuracy, as measured by groups shot out of a machine rest, is greatly improved by the inverted rail design of the P210 enabling more precise and durable slide to frame alignment. Correlatively, practical accuracy is aided by making the trigger action on the P210, as determined by the sear engagement within the field replaceable unit construction hammer assembly, far easier to tune and maintain. Acting together, these refinements are responsible for the superior long-range performance of the P210.
These considerations motivated the development of the Colt Series 70 collet bushing design, which controlled the muzzle end of the barrel with self-sprung fingers. Unfortunately, it was plagued by breakage issues. Today, a similar effect might be achieved with spherical barrel bushings pioneered by Briley and popularized by Smith and Wesson, or flared bull barrels fitted directly to bushingless slides.
The problem of extra clearances was solved more definitively in the final pistol design to incorporate Browning’s contribution, the Hi-Power or Grand Puissance (GP), completed by the FN engineer Dieudonné Saive, later renowned for work on the FN FAL. Saive superseded the M1911 removable spare part with a bushing permanently pinned into the slide. The GP35 also dispensed with the pivoting barrel link used to tilt the barrel in the recoil stroke of the M1911 in favor of a camlock ramp bearing against a steel lug staked into the frame. Most subsequent Browning pattern pistol designs incorporated both of these features.
The SIG P210 was a considerable refinement of the Browning design, as it had been further developed by Saive, Fedor Tokarev, and Charles Petter. Whereas the bushing fixing the barrel at the muzzle end and the link controlling its travel through the recoil cycle enabled the M1911 to be tuned for maximum precision of barrel lockup to the slide, the integral slide and barrel cam on the P210 achieved better lockup consistency in forgoing the flexibility by dispensing with these extra parts.
The P210 is sometimes acclaimed for making a design contribution in its inverted slide rail arrangement. But this ostensibly novel arrangement duplicates the receiver to frame interface of the previous Swiss service pistol, the Georg Luger-designed Parabellum, equally known for its superlative accuracy. The M1911 slide rails face outwards of the frame. The GP35 improves on this by having two sets of rails, the inner and the outer. Given equal clearances, the end-to-end length of slide rails is the most important factor in the alignment of the slide to the frame. In the final version of the GP35, Saive nearly doubled the slide-to-frame engagement of the M1911. The P210 design has nearly twice the rail engagement of the GP35. Thanks to this feature, the Swiss pistol combines superior slide alignment with sufficient working clearances.
Mechanical accuracy, as measured by groups shot out of a machine rest, is greatly improved by the inverted rail design of the P210 enabling more precise and durable slide to frame alignment. Correlatively, practical accuracy is aided by making the trigger action on the P210, as determined by the sear engagement within the field replaceable unit construction hammer assembly, far easier to tune and maintain. Acting together, these refinements are responsible for the superior long-range performance of the P210.
makarovnik
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Go Michael!
You sound like you know a lot about pistolsmithing. On the browning swinging link system what is it that actually forces the upper barrel lugs to fit tightly into the lugs on the slide? You know, so that you can't push the rear of the barrel down with your thumb while in battery. Is it the link and pins or is it the lug on the bottom of the barrel resting on the frame somehow?
You sound like you know a lot about pistolsmithing. On the browning swinging link system what is it that actually forces the upper barrel lugs to fit tightly into the lugs on the slide? You know, so that you can't push the rear of the barrel down with your thumb while in battery. Is it the link and pins or is it the lug on the bottom of the barrel resting on the frame somehow?
gbran
Member
Some pistols are more accurate. Having said that, let me tell you about my friend. He has a Sig 226 (9mm) and is terrible with it, I mean really bad. I've shot the Sig and it was very accurate for me. He went out and bought an HK USP in .45 acp and he does just fine with it. He and the Sig just didn't click I guess.
varoadking
Member
No, actually, it's science. And some art...
BTW - you can certainly install a posi-traction differential on a Plymouth...but it was a Chevrolet invention. More science you likely didn't know...
Michael Zeleny
member
Actually, I was, on a lark, quoting from the movie, Joe Dirt. Some art you likely didn't know. Also, for your information, while the "Positraction" differential was GM, the differential called "Posi-Trac" was Mopar. Some automotive history you likely didn't know.
Michael Zeleny
member
The P7 is delivered with test targets averaging 2" groups at 25 meters. Much better accuracy is readily available in numerous tilting barrel designs.
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