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Why aren't other guns as slim as 1911?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by SubSolar, Oct 25, 2007.

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  1. SubSolar

    SubSolar Member

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    Just wondering why other semiautos don't have the slim profile that the 1911 does. Seems like most other handguns even in 9mm or .40 don't have a thin slide like a .45 1911.
     
  2. R.W.Dale

    R.W.Dale Member

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    You think a M1911 is slim??????
     
  3. CWL

    CWL Member

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    Depends on the capacity of the firearm. The trend of pistols have gone towards doublestack magazines so the pistol can only be as narrow as the magazine+grip width.

    Other singlestack guns with slim profiles that I can immediately think of include Kahr K9 & P9, Kel-Tec PA3T & P32, H&K P7M8...
     
  4. BADUNAME2

    BADUNAME2 Member

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    The other thing is that the 1911 slide is round on top, whereas most newer designs are squarish. that adds to the impression of thickness.

    ~~~Mat
     
  5. SubSolar

    SubSolar Member

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    I can understand the double stack theory, but even a Sig P220 which is single stack doesn't seem to be as thin.
     
  6. tnieto2004

    tnieto2004 Member

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    Many guns are Double stack
     
  7. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    Yea. I got tired over the years of hearing how "big" the 1911 .45 was and then they would tout, lets say, the Beretta 9MM, WHICH IS EVEN BIGGER!!!!!! :banghead:

    Slim and easy to conceal. It's awesome ain't it. :D
     
  8. CWL

    CWL Member

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    Some (actually most) guns were created for military & police applications. In that regards, concealment was not needed but overredundant solidness & reliability were, so you have the big & chunky designs of most of the "service" weapons.

    During the past AWB when guns were limited to 10-rd magazines, gun designers actually did focus on smaller, thinner and more concealable pistols.
     
  9. CPshooter

    CPshooter Member

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    Isn't it though?

    I don't own a 1911, but I've read that they are only 0.9" at the slide. That's exactly the same width as my Kahr PM9 slide...pretty darn thin if you ask me. The only place 1911s are thicker is the grips. But w/ some slim grips like alumagrips you are still probably looking at just a hair over an inch. Considering guns like Glocks, Sigs, H&K, etc have slides that are around 1.2-1.3" w/ even fatter grips, the 1911 is a relatively thin gun.

    I can't imagine a commander w/ an aluminum frame and some slim grips being very hard to carry at around 28oz and 1" thick...I've actually been thinking of getting one just for the winter when I can get away with carrying a bigger gun than my PM9.
     
  10. f4t9r

    f4t9r Member

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    slim is in and bigger is better, as the sayings go. It gives more options and things to discuss on this forum
     
  11. sm

    sm member

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    Because they hang around vending machines.
    Yep, .gov did a study and said hanging around vending machines causes Obesity.

    That is why they want vending machines removed from schools...

    Now you know...

    ;)
     
  12. Gustav

    Gustav Member

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    People were smaller back in 1911 there fingers were also.:neener:
     
  13. Papaster

    Papaster Member

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    Most other semi-autos were not directly designed by John Browning. Notable exception: Hi-Power. Also very slim.
     
  14. Papaster

    Papaster Member

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    I think much of the gripe about 1911 size is in the length and capacity/weight ratio. They are definitely slim, just don't have the capacity of their polymer counterparts.
     
  15. Papaster

    Papaster Member

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    Because most semi-autos were not designed by John Browning. He also designed the svelte Hi-Power.
     
  16. Papaster

    Papaster Member

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    Because most semi-autos were not designed by John Browning. He also designed the svelte Hi-Power. Oops! Sorry about the quad post.
     
  17. Mojo-jo-jo

    Mojo-jo-jo Member

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    1911 is Single action only. Sig P220 is SA/DA. The trigger mechanism in the P220 is more complex, as well as not designed to be as compact as the 1911 (the 1911 trigger mechanism is especially compact).

    There's actually not a really big difference, but definitely enough to feel it:
    1911 (Kimber Custom II): 1.28 inches
    Sig P220: 1.40 inches
     
  18. Car Knocker

    Car Knocker Member

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    I'd have to say that is a bit of an overstatement. The BHP is based on a 1922 striker-fired Browning design. When the Colt 1911 patents ran out in 1928, the Fabrique National designer Dieudonne Saive incorporated some of the 1911's features in his third redesign of the pistol (earlier Saive redesigns changed the pistol from striker-fired to hammer-fired and added the "step" to the front of the slide). The BHP wasn't patented until after Browning's death in 1926 and wasn't released for sale until 1935, when Belgium bought 1,000 of the pistols. Arguably, Saive contributed more to the design than Browning.
     
  19. 3rdpig

    3rdpig Member

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    It's single stack, it's got a steel frame and it uses steel magazines. Steel parts can be made thinner than similar plastic or aluminum parts and be just as strong. There's little or no lock work on the sides that the grips have to swell around to cover, and the whole gun is rounded off instead of squared off. The way it locks into battery also lends itself to a slim slide. And, the grips are dead flat, not swelled to fill the palm.
     
  20. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    Hey, Car Knocker, I'll argue. One of D. Saive's main jobs was to plow Browning design features back into a gun that Mr Browning had to design to evade his own patents assigned exclusively to Colt. When the patents ran out, FN used them. Key items being gun assembly tied to the slide stop, a thumb safety on the receiver, and a barrel bushing. (Yes, a BHP has a barrel bushing, even though it is permanently installed in production models instead of the removable 1911 type bushing shown in 1929.) Those are just the obvious ones I recall offhand, there are likely others.
     
  21. RyanM

    RyanM Member

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    According to my files, a 1911 slide is 0.91" wide, and the frame is about 0.79". Average thickness grips will be about 1.25" wide.

    That's not very much thinner than other guns. My G23 is 1.01" thick across the slide, 1.15" frame and grips.
     
  22. Katana8869

    Katana8869 Member

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    My Ruger P345 is about the same width as my 1911's. It actually feels thinner in the grip than my S&W 1911PD Commander.
     
  23. CPshooter

    CPshooter Member

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    WIDTH
    30 mm / 1.18 in. That's from the Glock website, and it designates that as the slide width. The frame and grips are > than 1.3" I believe... I'm pretty sure this is accurate since I'm almost positive my G19 and G27 were significantly fatter than 1.15" at the grips. Definitely don't think either were only 1" wide at the slide.

    That .1 or .2" makes a HUGE difference in comfort when carrying a weapon IWB. An unloaded G26 is just under 20oz. Take a loaded Kahr PM9 (probably close in weight) and you will probably find that the loaded PM9 is MUCH easier to carry simply due to the fact that it is (relatively) MUCH thinner at 0.9" slide and frame. A Glock IWB feels like a small brick riding in your waistline, whereas with the Kahr you don't even notice it's there at all. I won't carry a gun unless it's no more than 1" at its fattest point( minus the slide release or safety width ).
     
  24. The Lone Haranguer

    The Lone Haranguer Member

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    The 1911 slide can be rounded on top and more "streamlined" due to its barrel design, with round-topped locking lugs engaging similar grooves in the slide. A barrel/slide lockup that has a squared chamber shoulder engaging the ejection port must necessarily be squared off on top.
     
  25. RyanM

    RyanM Member

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    If a Glock's slide width is 1.18" wide, then that means .40 S&W is actually a .57 caliber. My calipers are working fine, and the slide width is 1.008", grip width... now it's saying 1.798". And I personally find absolutely no comfort difference between carrying a G23 and Kahr MK40 IWB, using kydex holsters.
     
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