Why did Colt quit on the Python and Anaconda, etc.

[YosemiteSam357]

People balk at spending $300 on a gun. It's a lot of money, but it's not a lot of money for a gun. Lots of production guns are up in the $800-1000 range.

Maybe if S&W or Ruger didn't exist to take up a portion of the market share.

Are you saying that a $1500 revolver would be more palatable if there were no $400-800 revolvers?

There is a market for expensive revolvers but it's not a very big market. Obviously big enough to support some vendors but not a large corporation.

Lest anyone think these are terribly expensive should look into the price of high end shotguns. It'll make your toes curl. Yep, there's some money out there these days...

I have no connection with either of these vendors, though I wish I did...

-- Sam

 

[Hawk]

There is a market for expensive revolvers but it's not a very big market. Obviously big enough to support some vendors.

Even in double action.
I do wish they'd lose that funky thing to the right of the hammer, though.

 

[deadin]

Are you saying that a $1500 revolver would be more palatable if there were no $400-800 revolvers?

I was thinking more of the range of the S&W Performance Shop stuff which is what their main competition would be.and probably should have left Ruger off the list.
And yes, there is enough to support small operations, see Korth.
As for the Custom Vendors, there will always be a limited market for their goods, but they are a long way from "production" guns.
A number of years ago, while I was in England, I went to H&H and Boss. Their normal mode of business was 50% down when you placed your order and then, in the next year or two, you might get your gun.

 

[Boats]

I have a Colt's Detective Special, a later model with the full barrel shroud and the kind of bluing that though not remarkable in its day, is of a depth you rarely see anymore at all on a production gun. The thing is a marvel.

I have also taken to not shooting it very much. I fear that one day the mainspring and rebound lever will give up the ghost and the piece will be worthy of either a horrifically expensive repair or have to be sold for cannibalization.

Colt's has been tremendously stupid over the years, but not very dumb in the design department, the AA2000 being the notable exception to the rule.

 

[JERRY]

add to the fact that Colt did little to nothing to attract the average handgunner needing a ccw piece, unlike S&W, Taurus, and to a less sustainable extent Charter Arms......who all made small, light weight snubbies in various flavors that remained attractive to the average Joe/Jane.....

 

[CU74]

I'm not one of those who bemoans Colt's management ineptitude, except when I'm trying to buy a good used Colt revolver. I love the Colt "bank-vault" lock-up, and would shoot mine more if not for the fact that tuning and repairs are becoming harder to find, (and more expensive). I have a Detective Special, a Cobra, a Trooper MkII, two Diamondbacks and two Pythons.

"People balk at spending $300 on a gun". People, in general, are not very bright. A revolver that costs less than $300 just isn't much of a gun. Quality costs, and it always has. For an example, look at furniture - quality furniture becomes antiques with age. Cheap furniture becomes junk. The same applies to revolvers.

I have been looking for a King Cobra for months, but haven't found one yet that wasn't priced by the US Military Procurement Office, (remember the $3,000 coffee pots?). I would also like to have a nickel Python with the 3" barrel, but would have to mortgage the farm to afford one.

As far as the butter-smooth Python trigger, I have a bunch of Smith&Wessons with better triggers than my Pythons. My best trigger is on a Ruger GP100, but it has had a professional trigger job. There is a lot of Colt Mystique out there, and it is increasing with each year that passes since they stopped making what were arguably the best quality revolvers ever made.

 

[Nightcrawler]

I think there's some misconceptions about Colt revolvers here.

The Python is NOT the only Colt revolver. It is the one that tends to cost in excess of a thousand dollars though, for the same reasons that Harley motorcycles hold their value.

The Anaconda, King Cobra, and Magnum Carry were modern lockwork guns, priced about the same as offerings from Smith & Wesson. That said, with law enforcement no longer buying revolvers in large numbers, and law enforcement also not buying Government Model pistols in any significant quantity, Colt had a real problem. They didn't have a "cop gun" to make bulk sales of and bring in cash so they could do other things. In order to cut cost, they dropped their revolvers.

Or something like that. In any case, a NIB King Cobra can be had for less than a thousand dollars, and they only cost more than a new 686 because they're no longer made (and...anything with Colt stamped on it tends to hold its value).

The Python was the last of the old-school double action revolvers. In my opinion, the King Cobra is better in every way that matters. It's more durable, less expensive, more generally useful. I'd love to get one.

Problem is...if it breaks, who's going to fix it? *shrug*

 

[Titan6]

Hawk- We were out shooting my wife's last Sunday and I can tell you the Python is the finest revolver I have ever shot. I do not think I would pay $1500 for a new one when I can still buy a used one for less 1-1.2K. But someone might.

 

[AJD]

US Firearms product offerings are among the best today in firearms.

http://www.usfirearms.com/pdf/amhandgunner-novdec06.pdf

"Highest quality sixgun you can purchase today".

http://www.gunblast.com/Cumpston_USFA-PreWar.htm

"The United States Firearms Single Action Army, American made in the old Colt factory at Hartford, is a near-perfect rendition of the traditional Peacemaker. The reviewer would have to go far afield to find any aspect of the item to criticize. The only complaints to emerge are that the revolver lacks a rampant pony on the grips and the left side of the frame and that it is very likely better than the original."

http://gunblast.com/USFAFlattop.htm

"In case you could not tell up to this point, I am very impressed with the U.S. Firearms Flattop Target revolver, and I highly recommend it to anyone searching for an accurate, reliable, and authentic single action that is a bit different from the run-of-the-mill Colt replica. This revolver is better fitted and finished than any Colt that I have ever handled, and is more accurate than I can hold it. With the design of the sights, it is easily adapted to your favorite .45 load, and shoots like a dream."

http://www.usfirearms.com/pdf/handloaderaug04.pdf

http://www.usfirearms.com/pdf/americanhandgunner_mayjune2005.pdf

Or go read all the other articles or go talk to ANYBODY who owns one and get ready to hear endless praise.

http://www.usfirearms.com/pages/publishedreviews.asp

As far as the Python goes, love the Python and have two of them. If Colt could produce the Python at the same level of quality as the early Pythons and ALSO find some way to improve upon it(increase the strength of the action?, etc.) then I think a market would exist for it even if it cost around $1500+. If Freedom Arms can sell $2000 revolvers and US Firearms can sell $1200 revolvers then Colt could too (Heck, people pay $1200+ for a SAA that isn't even as good as a US Firearms one.) but the QUALITY has to be there and be CONSISTENT from gun to gun.

 

[Old Fuff]

If Freedom Arms can sell $2000 revolvers and US Firearms can sell $1200 revolvers then Colt could too

Maybe, maybe not. But the main point is that both Freedom Arms and US Firearms are relatively small operations, not mainline manufacturers. Neither has an extensive product line, but rather a particular product (single action revolvers).

But then Colt isn't mainline anymore either. Colt would also require a substantial injection of money for developing and tooling new and/or additional models. They don't have it. They don't generate enough cash flow to get it, and their parent company is unwilling to provide any funds from their seperate military/law enforcement operations. They have tried unsuccessfully to sell their handgun division, but no one will pay them what they want for it.

In the unlikely event that Colt did find the funding it wouldn't go into new revolvers, but rather new pistols, probably with ploymer frames. That's where the present market and largest profit margins are.

There are very few members of this forum that understand guns as a business, and fewer still that comprehend what it takes to make a profit when you are trying to mass produce product within the United States.

 

[AJD]

I don't understand it. I don't understand how the tiny US Firearms can produce and introduce new models like the Bisley, the Flat-top Target Model, Omni Potent, Woodsman(soon), 1911, 1910, ACE, Lightning Rifle, Remington 1875(soon), etc. etc. and sell them in relatively tiny quantities and how Colt(Who makes and sells alot more handguns than US Firearms) would be incapable of even reintroducing the Python on a custom order, custom shop basis. They just stopped making them like 3 years ago and now its all of a sudden impossible to produce today?

 

[YosemiteSam357]

If Freedom Arms can sell $2000 revolvers and US Firearms can sell $1200 revolvers then Colt could too

I don't understand it. I don't understand how the tiny US Firearms can produce and introduce ...

Because they're both small companies. Are either of them even publicly traded? I kinda doubt it.

In today's corporate/investment environment there is no way a public company (Colt) is going to keep a low margin product line afloat. Investors have only short term gains in mind and are demanding absurd returns and annual growth from every corporate entity. There is no investment in R&D or anything that does not positively affect the immediate bottom line. The company belongs to the investors, and is required to do what they demand, through the board.

It's ruining most businesses in America (especially the tech companies) but it's what we have.

-- Sam

 

[Hawk]

While the thread may have started with Colt and the double-actions, it seems to have slid itself into the boutique shops.

That would seem plausible as there's no mass market potential - at least none that I could conjecture. No police or military sales. I gather there isn't even much that could be relied upon from the gamers. Cowboy action is growing like a weed, with some unlikely firms getting into the SAA clone market, but there doesn't appear to be anything similar that a Python clone could count on.

It's not clear what's left. I'd like a currently produced Python but even I'd fall off the radar if it's not appreciably slicker than the Anaconda.

Anybody whose Python jones requires that there be a pony on the firearm would likely drop by the wayside as well.

USFA seems to have developed a profitable business from producing boutique quantities of what Colt no longer makes, and in some cases stuff that Colt still makes. A Python would look pretty nice wedged between their Woodsman and Super .38.

The Woodsman, presumably, is "nostalgia only". I don't know what it would do that any number of current, probably cheaper, .22 rimfires wouldn't do. Anybody think the Woodsman might be a gauge for Python demand?

The number of people that would actually require and spend extra for a pony on a gun seem to be dwindling, but this might just be my perception of the matter.

 

[AJD]

The Woodsman, like basically everything US Firearms makes, will be a custom order piece. Why would someone want one? I don't know. A few reasons I guess would be it will be a 1st generation model copy, it will have a carbona blue finish like the pre-war Colt's, barrel length can be customed order, it could be custom engraved, custom stocked(ivory, etc.), nickel plated, etc. Expensive but US Firearms actually has a very loyal, very enthusiastic customer base and "dissapointments" are few and very far in between. If anything the customer base just gets tired of waiting for annouced models to come out.

They don't make guns and ship them out without them being ordered in advance as far as I know(with the exception of the Rodeo). You place your order with what you want and then they make them. It usually takes around 2-4 months.

 

[Hawk]

At 2 to 4 months, they're kicking the snot out of STI's vaporware. I thought the omni-potent went near forever but maybe not.

Anyhow, any conjecture on whether the same market segment that the Woodsman would appeal to would be similarly swayed by a hand-fitted, Royal Blue Python?

Expensive, boutique quantities and a waiting list. Some of the poetry I've heard recited over the Python would lead me to believe USFA might profit from it, but this is strictly conjecture on my part. USFA also seems near unique in not suffering overmuch from the absence of the horse - they've got an excellent following all their own.

I wouldn't guess anything similar would rescue the Anaconda - that thing did not seem to offer much not already provided by the competition and supply of 29s seems to be plentiful. Pulling the plug on the Anaconda was probably a mercy.

 

[AJD]

Well, they could make some changes to add to the appeal of the Python. How about a 5" Python? 7" Python? Never seen one of those before. A carbona blue finish as a custom order? Never heard of that before. Full checkered walnut target grips like the early models, custom sights(gold bead on front, etc. etc.), custom engraving, etc. all would be expensive but all their stuff is expensive anyway and look at their products and prices. If people will fork out $1500+ for one of their 1911's then maybe they would pay a premium for a Python as well.

Heck they are going to produce at Remington 1875 that will be no doubt be $1000+ and where may I ask is the demand for one of those!

If you read through the testimonials for US Firearms you began to see that many are extremely pleased and very loyal.

http://www.usfirearms.com/pages/testimonials.asp

 

[koja48]

is it really all that plus a bag of chips?

And more . . . the Smith on the left is a right fine revolver . . . the Python is a sheer delight. "Buttery-smooth" falls way short of the mark . . .

 

[Hawk]

All that and a bag of chips...

OK, hypothetical question: my dealer counsels against my getting a Python as I'm not a collector. Not only will it be shot, but I'm somewhat ham-handed and inside a week mine wouldn't look anything like the pic above.

Said hypothetical dealer has a "no collector value" Python - double action only, bobbed hammer, 1980's "bowling pin gun", drilled rib, "wing" sight (whatever that is).

Would that be a good choice for someone wanting the "Python experience"?

Seems reasonable, it's the double action that makes the angels sing n'cest pas?

 

[bulbboy]

I wish they wouldn't have stop making the Mustang and Government .380 pocketlite series...

 

[koja48]

I'd prolly pass on that one, Hawk, unless it's a helluva price. I looked a long time before I found mine, but it was a great deal & worth the wait. And it does get used, just not as much as the .41 Mag . . . I happen to be a huge .41 fan. That being said, if you'd be content in DA-only mode, then it's a consideration. I don't shoot DA a lot, but in that mode, the snake shines. It also has a very crisp SA trigger.

 

[Hawk]

I shouldn't be trusted with a collector grade anything.

The NIB high polish Anaconda has taken more wear since I bought it Saturday then it saw since the day it was made. My dies showed up today and 1K Starline will be here by Friday next. My goal is to get my double action kung-fu up to par and that will take a lot of rounds as I've suffered from trigger-related OCD for quite some time.

Is the Python single action really better than the 686? If the difference resides strictly in double action, the mutilated version might be best for me.

The price quoted was under 500.00, FWIW.

 

[koja48]

Never shot a 686, so I have no basis for comparison. My 57 is crisp, but I believe the Python may be a tad better. I paid a little less than that for mine, but it was sheer good luck that I stumbled into that deal. I'd love to find an Anaconda ('specially since I grew up in that town in Montana).

 

[Hawk]

You got that Python for under 500.00 bucks?!

I don't think that sort of thing happens any more.

Not to me, anyway.

 

[koja48]

I knew the guy who was selling it (I had actually shot it before). He ran on hard times & called me to find out what it was worth. When I told him, he said he had already told a guy he'd sell it for $300, but the guy hadn't come-up with the funds. When he wouldn't take a loan, I wired the money into his account, drove back to Montana, & picked it up . . . felt so bad I made him take an old Speed Six to make ME feel better (had he been a stranger, I would have driven all the way home with an ear-to-ear grin. Well, a BIGGER ear-to-ear grin!)

 

[Logan5]

I've never shot a Python - is it really all that plus a bag of chips? I don't see much chance of a "try before you buy" in my immediate future.

I don't know if I'd go that far, but my Pythons are... well, it's hard to describe. The Colt DA trigger is a different animal from your S&W or Ruger.
I imagine Colt figured people would be stepping up to Pythons from the lower tiers of their DA revolver line, and at some point forgot that that line had ceased to exist. If you're used to a S&W L frame you'll probably hate having to relearn a new DA trigger geometry. If you've been shooting a New Service, Official Police, or Trooper, a Python is Hot. If you've got a Ruger, you could probably care less about this whole topic, and you'd be fine for not knowing.