Why did the .338 federal never take off?

[2ndtimer]

I don't understand why so many feel the need to ridicule and disparage cartridges that differ from their personal "superior" choice of cartridge, (usually a 30-06). I bought a Ruger Hawkeye All-Weather in .338 Federal for my son, thinking it would be an interesting option for medium to large game at reasonable range. It is a very effective cartridge for these parameters. I also like the .270WSM, which I believe is an excellent long range medium game round, particularly for recoil sensitive shooters. We have two Model 70's so chambered. I find them to kick less than the omnipotent 30-06, and the only knock on them is the high price of factory ammo, and the almost extortive prices being charged for unprimed brass.
In short, not everyone desires what EVERYONE else is using. It would be a boring world without other options.

 

[Buzsaw]

338 federal

The attraction of the 338 federal is the super short ant lightweight platform it is usually built upon. A short action super lightweight short barreled rifle to shoot game at reasonable distance. I have shot one and liked it, although I couldn't really justify replacing my 30-06 with it. But I see the potential for it and would buy one if the price was right.

 

[HankB]

I always find it interesting how some folks justify their settling on the .30-06. It's somehow "better" than smaller cartridges that kill deer just as dead with less recoil, muzzle blast and firearm weight. It's somehow "better" than the .308, even though their ballistics are identical with bullets up to 180gr.

Really? Military loads meant for the M1/M14 are one thing - but let's compare some of the most modern sporting loads available, Hornady Superformance.

.308, Hornady Superformance, 150 GMX: 2940 ft/sec
.308, Hornady Superformance, 165 GMX: 2750 ft/sec
.30/06, Hornady Superformance, 150 GMX: 3080 ft/sec
.30/06, Hornday Superformance, 165 GMX: 2940 ft/sec

Or more traditional, standard ammo (Winchester "Super-x")

.308/150 2820
.30/06/150 2920

Yep, they're identical all right.

Realistically, the difference is small with these bullet weights in the game field . . . as it would be with any of the .270/7mm/.30 caliber rounds in this general category.

 

[tahoe2]

338 Federal

I think it's an awesome round ! since the comparison is to the infamous -06, doesn't it kick less ? with the same bullet weight (180-200)?? Not disputing the 06's capabilities, just that all the ones I have shot, kicked tremendously, or maybe the stocks just didn't fit me right, anyway my 8x57 mauser shoots 180's and 200's just as good as an 06 and the recoil is mild compared the 06 (in my experience), judging by the case capacity of the 338 Fed it should recoil less than the 8x57 but with a bigger bullet. I'd buy one if I needed another rifle cause I like mild recoil with big thump! just my .02 cents

 

[T.R.]

I've taken moose, elk, caribou, deer, and black bear with my .308 and none got away. It's doubtful that these animals would be "deader" if shots had been fired from a 338 Federal. The North American market for middle-bores is very weak.

One cartridge that really deserves to be popular is the 358 Norma MAG. Yet its faded away like many others.

TR

 

[Jim Watson]

A guy here was all set to rebarrel his Mohawk 6mm to .358 Win and then the .338 Fed came along. So he went with the new round.
The good news is, it shoots, it kills.
The bad news is, he did not find it practical to neck up common .308 brass. It would shoot once after its trip over the expander plug, but the sizing die would not bring it back down small enough for good bullet pull on the second loading. It thinned the neck to where the bullet was not snug in the case. I am sure he could have bought special purpose dies, but it did not work with the regular die set.

 

[CaliCoastie]

My father in law has one. He's happy with it, but he likes them a bit odd. His reasoning is that if his rifles get stolen they a) won't know the caliber (uncommon or he doesn't have the barrel stamped), b) they have to go to a smith to figure out what it is, and c) they won't be able to find ammo.

Me? I'd love to get my hands on a 350 he mag. Different people.
Case in point i just got my hands on a ruger m77 flat bolt on 250 Savage, looking forward to spending some time with that, and wouldn't even consider a 243.

 

[DM~]

The attraction of the 338 federal is the super short ant lightweight platform it is usually built upon. A short action super lightweight short barreled rifle to shoot game at reasonable distance.

Thing is, these days, a rifle like that can be built/bought in most any chambering...

DM

 

[Blueduck]

I thought the cartridge was great idea, and had a lot of strengths for use in a short action (Not sure where all the 30-06 comparisons are coming from??)

Anyway as above. Sometimes a cartridge fails because their is literally a failure in it's design for it's purpose. More often it fails because of dozens factors the manufacturer cannot control, including whims of the public, what other guns products came out at the same time and got the press, the economy it's introduced in etc.. etc..

There was a highly successful diet candy in the 70's through the early 80's. It brought it profits every year, and everything was going along fine. The name of it was "Aydes". It died a very quick death in the mid eighties when AID's became the preferred name of the new sexually transmitted disease that tended to emaciate it's victims. Tell the story just to show, sometimes it's not a products fault it fails, stuff just happens.

 

[Elkins45]

The 358 Winchester is a superior (or perhaps equal) round and it had a 50 year head start. If it didn't succeed I don't know why the 338 would be expected to.

Actually I guess the 358 did succeed as compared to the 338 because you can still buy a BLR in 358.

 

[2ndtimer]

Just noticed that Savage is offering the 338 Federal in a number of Models from the Hog Hunter with 20" threaded barrel and iron sights (a great idea) to their 26" heavy barrel long range rifle ( a bit of a head scratcher). It is also being offered in their affordable Trophy XP package with Nikon 3-9X scope. Hope they sell a bunch, that Hog Hunter is sure appealing. If I lived in a hog area, I think I would grab one..

 

[Elkins45]

Just noticed that Savage is offering the 338 Federal in a number of Models from the Hog Hunter with 20" threaded barrel and iron sights (a great idea) to their 26" heavy barrel long range rifle ( a bit of a head scratcher). It is also being offered in their affordable Trophy XP package with Nikon 3-9X scope. Hope they sell a bunch, that Hog Hunter is sure appealing. If I lived in a hog area, I think I would grab one..

It would be more appealing, at least to me, if they offered a left hand version.

I guess since the original ones were offered in 338 Win mag it makes sense they fit the barrels to a short action and chamber in 338 Federal. I think 338 Federal would make an outstanding hog round...but then again so would 358 Win. Part of the reason for the hog hunter line was to offer guns with threaded barrels for hunting with silencers. I wonder how many 338 silencer options there are?

 

[GooseGestapo]

Jim Watson; The problem with the aquaintance's .338 is the expander ball, not the brass.

I've formed many rounds of .358 from .308. Just did 200rds of Federal from Gold Medal match that I bought for 20cents apiece.
It's the expander stretching the brass after sizing when the case is pulled from the die. I've had to turn down/polish the expander's from a number of dies to "remediate" this. One was in fact a Lee .338/06 die when it was a "semi-custom" die from Lee.
I also had to polish the expander for my .338Marlin Express dies (Hornady Custom).

The problem with the .338Fed was the same as with the .358win.

Perceptions.

If my Browning BLR in .358win had a better trigger, it would be my favorite rifle/cartridge.
The larger bores just have more "slap" on target. Advantage larger bullet...

I've got a .260Rem and it's OK. I also have it's nearest cousin, the .257. Neither are quite in the league with the .270, but don't "need" to be both are feather-weight "deer" rifles. The 7mm08 is a tad better IMO and very,very close to the .30/06; and so forth as we go upward in bore diameter.

Nothing in my "collection" quite matches the .375Ruger, except the .45/70, and then only with really, really high-end loads.
The .375Ruger should be the most popular cartridge on the market. Tremendous versatility and reduced loads with the Hornady 200gr FN, and 225gr Sptizer as well as 235gr Speer put it in the .30/06 class, or if further reduced, the .30/30 class.
But, it's really too much for 80% of game and even with down-loaded rounds is too heavy/much when others are "better" due to lower component expense (ignoring cost of brass). Plus, for full power loads, it NEEDS to be ~9lbs with scope.

Nothing "wrong" with the .338Fed besides limited factory ammo choices. Just too many other, well established alternatives.

 

[Inebriated]

I like .338 Fed. Problem is, I have no use for it. And it's the same case for the majority of people. They're already established with other cartridges, and .338 Fed offers little over their others.

I always find it interesting how some folks justify their settling on the .30-06. It's somehow "better" than smaller cartridges that kill deer just as dead with less recoil, muzzle blast and firearm weight. It's somehow "better" than the .308, even though their ballistics are identical with bullets up to 180gr. By some sort of hypocritical magic, it's also better than bigger cartridges that utilize larger, heavier bullets. Somehow, modern bullet technology has progressed to the point that the `06 is better than larger cartridges but through some weird conspiracy, that same technology does not apply to the larger cartridges, only the `06. Somehow the advantages by which it kills deer deader than something like the .257Roberts, .260 or 7mm-08, is not afforded larger cartridges over the .30-06. Only the `06 has the magic and it works in every direction.

In short, the .30-06 owes much of its popularity to wishful thinking and delusions of grandeur.

No one in this thread asserted that .30-06 benefited from better bullet technology while other cartridges didn't.

If you've got a personal rant against .30-06, go somewhere else to do it.

 

[d2wing]

Maybe it will take off eventually. As biz saw sad it is a good big game cartridge for AR10 type platforms. It will shoot a heavier bullet than a .308 at high enough velocities to do a good job on big game. But It has limited appeal compared to more popular cartridges. And there is the .35 Whalen and .338-06, 358 Win., 35 Rem and all those magnums.

 

[kvtcomdo]

Personally I love the 338 Federal.

The problem with it, is it was an answer to a ? that no one was asking.

Have a DPMS with a 338 Federal upper. Great gun, high $ of ammo(only one provider); but I still enjoy the heck out of it.

 

[GAMEOVER44]

The 308 stole a lot of thunder away from a few VERY good rounds. I have a 358 that id take ANY day over a 308 and you can reload 358 from 308 with some work. Anyway sucks that a few calibers fell in the cracks but there's still a niche market for them. Ill be reloading down the road but ill buy 358 stamped ammo every chance I get.

 

[dvdcrr]

The only 338 anything I ever even halfway wanted was when a fellow showed me his stainless laminate mxlr. That thing was sweet and struck me as a true "if you could only have one" rifle.

Theres just a huge contingent that only cares about 30 cal or less and 338 lapua gets the attention because it is awesome. And chambered in some awesome rifles. Barrett MRAD.

 

[EchoM70]

Just noticed that Savage is offering the 338 Federal in a number of Models from the Hog Hunter with 20" threaded barrel and iron sights (a great idea) to their 26" heavy barrel long range rifle ( a bit of a head scratcher). It is also being offered in their affordable Trophy XP package with Nikon 3-9X scope. Hope they sell a bunch, that Hog Hunter is sure appealing. If I lived in a hog area, I think I would grab one..

Thank you for the info!!! That's awesome, Savage is chambering rifles in .338 Federal now. Also found a source for .338 Fed brass.

I see they have the 16 series in .338 Fed. I'm all over that like white on rice!

 

[CraigC]

No one in this thread asserted that .30-06 benefited from better bullet technology while other cartridges didn't.

Nonsense. It is plainly written in this thread that people believe the `06 is better than anything smaller or bigger.

If you've got a personal rant against .30-06, go somewhere else to do it.

Are you a moderator? Did you buy THR? I didn't bring up the .30-06 and I will participate however I deem necessary, thank you very much. You are certainly free to counter any point I've made but don't tell me when and where I can post.

 

[Bezoar]

i dont know, 8x57 mauser is alot more wallet friendly?

 

[HankB]

Oh, one more thing - if you want a bigger bullet than a .30 in a cartridge that will work through a .308-length action, and you don't mind an oddball, somewhat proprietary cartridge, you can always get a .338 Ruger Compact Magnum. You gain a couple of hundred feet per second velocity over the Federal round, and always have the option of downloading it to the weaker round's level; uploading the Federal round to RCM round performance isn't an option.

And I think something over 95% of hunters really don't care about the fraction of an inch longer action it takes to comfortably chamber a .30/06 length round.

 

[twofifty]

Thank you for the info!!! That's awesome, Savage is chambering rifles in .338 Federal now. Also found a source for .338 Fed brass.

I see they have the 16 series in .338 Fed. I'm all over that like white on rice!

Savage is a gutsy manufacturer, a pack leader not follower.