Why Do Hunters Do This?

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matrem

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I fully understand somebody asking legitimate questions about calibers/bullet selection for specific game animals or situations.
But,am I the only one that has seen a lot of nit picking & redundancy? What are we going to see next,maybe a question like this?
I'm planning a hunt this fall to Wyohtanexorria,and I need to know what bullet to use to hunt grizzlecapetailed prarieprongwapitoyote,and most important,of course,what magic numbers & letters need to be stamped in my cases,to ensure that my equipment will make up for any possible error that I could make?

Oh yea,if I'm not able to locate or secure the perfect weapon,would my buddy's .300 Mountain Mashing Magnum with 180gr TripXpartAclaws be better than my 7mm Zipcode to Zipcode Zapper with 160gr DRTFATCs?
 
It often seems ... in general... the less hunting experience someone has the more they obsess over the numbers. I guess that could be because - without much actual field experience - the numbers are the only frame of reference they have.

:confused:
 
It's called "paralysis by analysis". We're becoming a nation of people who spend every minute worrying about choosing something that is perfectly acceptable, but that might not be the best.
 
Wyohtanexorria

Sounds fatal. Or at least really, really painful.

At any rate, we have to talk about something, right? Because, really, the answer to almost every hunting question could be ".270" or ".308" or ".30-06".
 
When I went to college, the first computer I ever saw took up one whole floor of a building and there was no internet. Information came from family and friends with actual experience. When we hunted, we took a proven rifle and caliber out and killed game with nary a problem. Most folks only owned one hunting rifle and it was adequate. Now you have to have one for every critter and range and time zone and altitude, etc.
 
Every board has a Department of Redundancy Department . . . on the chance that a neophyte hunter will pick-up some sound information/education, I'll continue to play.
 
I shot my first deer when I was 6 with a .270. I used that because my dad said it would work. I often get the feeling here that some people just didn't have dads like mine. It doesn't hurt anyone here to help out the guys that might not have been that fortunate.

Kinda sounds jacked up since I started that whole Cape Buffalo thread!!!

Oh yeah and the .270 beats the pants off any 30-06 ever made.
 
I reckon they think it is a fun, interesting and enjoyable past time. I guess some people like gettin' worked up about the perfect caliber, while others like getting worked up about people gettin' worked up about the perfect caliber. :evil:

Each to his or her own.
 
wel the 30-30 can take any game out there and has ,so the 7.62x39 is just about in the 30-30 class ,and the 223rem is not to far behind the 7.62x39,so in conclusion the 223rem is best.
 
Shawnee + 1

Hey There :
I tend too see it like Shawnee does.
we seem to have a lot of camp fire ballistic experts now days.

Gramps gave em the gun and thats just the way it is. Dad said, Uncle henry said. Joe Blow said.

Then we have Mr. Magnum. His rifle will kill anything that can be killed. but as a rule he can't shoot it worth a crap.

And we can't leave out the almighty .223. Awesome round. Moose ?
There is surely some one out there that thinks he can.

I have heard that the cave man took many big critters with a pointed stick and or a rock. But I'm willing to bet many died trying.
 
I've noticed the farther away from wildlife people get and the more expensive and rare hunts become, the more fixated they are on getting exactly the right round. The real hard-core local hunters I know just grab the same beat up thing they always use. Usually light weight and oftentimes underpowered according to conventional wisdom. But it works.

From all I've observed, the key has a lot more to do with knowing when to go, where to go there, where to shoot and how far away. If you go to a good spot at a reasonable distance and put the bullet in the right place, the rest doesn't matter so much. Within reason obviously.

Still, the debates are fun.
 
I've noticed the farther away from wildlife people get and the more expensive and rare hunts become, the more fixated they are on getting exactly the right round. The real hard-core local hunters I know just grab the same beat up thing they always use. Usually light weight and oftentimes underpowered according to conventional wisdom. But it works.

This is something I refer to as the "Air-Jordan" effect. From the Nike ad campaign years ago, we gained the short-lived phrase "It's gotta be the shoes."
You know, you can sky up like MJ if you just buy the shoes.
The same thing happens with hunting gear.
Nearly every single hunting show I flip past now is, ostensibly, an infomercial selling a product. So, new hunters are introduced to a world where the challenge of hunting is met by a huckster in camo with the nice facial hair of a trucker or farm hand, and that guy almost always has a thick country accent. And, he's selling you the answer to your problem.
(the exception to this is Jim Shockey, who is groomed to look like the pastoral ideal of a modern counterpart to Peter Capstick or Kenneth Anderson)
Anyway, these guys tell us "hey, look at me. I have this rifle/caliber/feed and I have success in the field. So can you, if you just buy the rifle/caliber."

I've been hunting for a long time and even turned away from a career as a guide. And, I've seen hunting change in just the last 15+ years or so into something entirely different thanks to the web and advances in advertising.

I certainly do long for the days of Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom coming on TV. And, I miss the days of not having hunting shows at all, since everyone just hunted and didn't need to be sold a bunch of stuff to make them feel better or jack up inexperience with technology.

But, I suppose that once people watch the current programming, buy the shoes, then find out they can't jump like Jordan they look around at all the other people with the shoes and ponder that a lot of people have been taken in by the myth of the carefully tailored ad campaign- and it's spokesperson whom they assumed was the salt of the earth/country as cornbread type Joe they thought he was (or the noble and courageous bwana-be).
And, then they wander in to The High Road to hopefully get advice from people who aren't being paid by RealTree, Ruger, Hornady, or any of the other people selling shoes. You know, real live average people who have success that isn't televised or paid for by a corporate entity. And, they hope that you'll pass on to them what your mentors passed on to you for the same price, without the carpet bagging approach of the Air-Jordans.
Everyone has to start somewhere. And, after they start hunting, I hope they keep going and narrowing their list of acceptable sources while upping their common sense quotient that only improves with experience. And, zeroing in on what the real truth of hunting is: software beats hardware any day of the week. It don't gotta be the shoes, the rifle, the caliber, the brand of bow, the bullet, or the camo. You don't have to reach out and touch a deer with a belted, non-belted, short, or whatever kind of Magnum someone carries if you can get close with a less powerful caliber, or even with an arrow you made at home.

Are there a lot of knuckleheads on forums like this? Yes. Probably quite a few who don't even hunt but keep their ballistics charts bookmarked so they can argue over trajectory and ft/lbs- mainly because it's nice and finite and they can argue forthewin (ftw! lolz). And, it's likely they haven't any skill at hunting so they talk ballistics only.
(ballistics are important, but not the quagmire you'd think.)
Do these knuckleheads tend to post more on the board and shout louder in the gun shop than anyone else? Yes. They don't hunt, so they gotta have a hobby.
You learn to walk through a cow pasture with your eyes open after you stomp through a few patties and get chased by a bull or two.
It's just the neophyte's turn to learn who to listen to and who to tune out or nod politely to as he/she yammers away.
And, it's our turn to pass something on, learning something ourselves.

So, it may be redundant, but the neophytes need people who have btdt to answer their questions with real answers interwoven with experience. That's how I got into hunting and that's how most everyone got into hunting.
We're all around the campfire. It's just not the same one my mentors had.
 
We're in the era of instant gratification. The biggest problem with instant gratification is that it takes too long.

Bigger, badder, and faster is always better. An animal killed with a .300 Whiizbangmagnum is deader than one killed with a 30-06.

A 150 grain bullet @ 2,600 fps works the same no matter what it says on the head stamp.
 
Just for future reference, here's a list of things I know from experience are capable of dropping a full grown whitetail deer in it's tracks.

7mm Mag
30-30
30-06
270
280
3" magnum #1 buckshot (dramatically effective)
70# compound bow w/ Thunderhead 125
60# recurve with 250 gr broadhead
44 Magnum super blackhawk
300 win mag
Ford F150
22 magnum
308
8' tall chainlink fence
Estwing hatchet

There's probably more...
 
This year I'm using my Yugo M48 for hunting. I'm going with 1969 LC brass sized/formed to 8mm with Win. LR primers, Rem. 185gr PSP CL projectiles & 47grs of H4350 or an as yet undetermined amount of H4895. Have not tried the 4895 in 8mm yet but hope to do so soon. The load using H4350 gave me about 3 inches @ 100yrds with an average velocity of 2229fps so I plan to tinker with the H4895 & see if that will do any better.

Now, you may ask what does this have to do with the topic of this thread?


It all breaks down to trial & error.
USE WHAT WORKS!!!!!!!!!!!
 
It often seems ... in general... the less hunting experience someone has the more they obsess over the numbers. I guess that could be because - without much actual field experience - the numbers are the only frame of reference they have.

Shawnee, I'm calling you on that statement. Since you obsess over the numbers yourself (clearly), then either that statement is false, OR you are the armchair hunter. Since we KNOW that you hunt a lot with your depredation permits, it must be a false statement......right? :p

Actually it's a mostly-true statement, but you didn't allow for the exceptions to the rule with that blanket statement, such as yourself (and myself, though I don't hunt as much as you do). :) All generalizations are always almost usually wrong.

Just for future reference, here's a list of things I know from experience are capable of dropping a full grown whitetail deer in it's tracks.

7mm Mag
30-30
30-06
270
280
3" magnum #1 buckshot (dramatically effective)
70# compound bow w/ Thunderhead 125
60# recurve with 250 gr broadhead
44 Magnum super blackhawk
300 win mag
Ford F150
22 magnum
308
8' tall chainlink fence
Estwing hatchet

The bold one is the one I'd like to hear the story on. That and the fence. I've heard of deer getting their head caught under a barbwire fence they didn't see and jumping and wringing their neck, but how does a chainlink kill a deer? But mainly I want to know who killed a deer with a hatchet and how that works....
 
At this point, and I may be redundant to mention it, but the newbies quest for easy but specific answers to vague and largely irrelivant questions is matched by some people's thirst for being the guru of the moment.
 
Ford F150

Zip,

What load do you use for the F150 . . . I always thought that a 1/2-ton was too light for deer . . .

koja
 
Zip,

What load do you use for the F150 . . . I always thought that a 1/2-ton was too light for deer . . .

koja

1/2 ton will do the job, although it will come apart more readily than a 3/4 or one ton. I definitely recommend the heavier loads for max penetration.

But mainly I want to know who killed a deer with a hatchet and how that works....

An old man who ran a trapline by where I used to deer hunt killed a 4 point with a hatchet. He was walking his line when he spotted the buck headed his way. He stood behind a tree and waylaid it in the noggin when it came right past his tree. Mostly luck that the deer came close enough.

I didn't see it happen, but there are pictures of the old man and the deer at the camp he hunted out of, and many of the guys there saw it when he came in.

Technically, the fence didn't kill the deer, but it did drop her. Running dogs when I was a kid - I saw a doe bust out of a thicket and try to jump a tall fence, but she didn't make it.
 
The redundancy doesn't really bother me, as most newbies to the forum or the sport ask the same questions......i.e.,''what the best deer caliber?" I really don't think there are any dumb questions from newbies, cause they're just that, newbies. Unlike some like to think, we were all newbies at hunting/guns and other things in life and asked the same questions. What gets to me are the answers from those that are supposedly experienced or the self appointed "house experts". Instead of stating that there is a multitude of excellent deer calibers out there, all capable of humanely harvesting an animal, and that what might be the best in one situation is only marginal in another, ol' gutshot posts that the only gun/bullet out there is the one "ol' gutshot" uses regardless of the area or situation.....and anyone that does not agree with him is an idiot.

A lot has to do with this being the internet and the capability of posting anything we want without having to prove it in person. Like those that post "I've been hunting deer for 85 years and have never missed/wounded an animal cause I only take the perfect shot!". Yeah right......anyone who has hunted for any length of time knows that there is way too many variables we cannot control while in the woods for this to be a fact.....but according to ol' gutshot it's gospel, and anyone who doesn't believe him is just a troll.

We need to ease up, to respect each others opinions and take what we read here with a grain of salt. We need to recommend and advise those new to the sport, and we should refrain from advising others to do things that are illegal or unethical. Just because we do it doesn't make it ethical to someone else...ethics should come from a group of peers we respect, not from someone on the internet that made a lucky shot. Instead of being so negative to what works for someone, we need to acknowledge that their situation may be different than ours, so methods and the tools used may be different. It doesn't mean what we do is wrong, it's just different cause of the situation.

Last, but not least we need to get along with our fellow hunters regardless of whether or not we agree with their opinions. We as hunters are a minority here in the U.S. of A. and with the disappearance of habitat and the growth of the anti's we need to stick together for our sport to continue as we know it.
 
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