Why do most people want to dump on inexpensive guns?

[jackstinson]

I feel safe betting my money that Goldsmith was using a cheap handgun.

How in the world do you get that from any known facts? The article in the Dispatch doesn't allude to what guns were involved.
The Police report doesn't either. The CPD report #080886757.1 only says that Thomas' death was a homicide/aggravated murder.
http://www.columbuspolice.org/Reports/ReportGrid.aspx
Granted, Kenmore Square Apartments are in a somewhat dangerous neighborhood, but the folks I've known from that area carry Glocks, S&W, and other "acceptable" firearms.

 

[DrDeFab]

You get what you pay for.

Lemme fix that for you....

You won't get more than what you pay for, but you may get a lot less. Caveat emptor.

There.

 

[rfurtkamp]

I could easily buy an HK if I wanted to. But I have priorities. I have a Sig anyway. And I have a Taurus. My guess is that some would think I should sell both and get a HK. I think that's silly because both of my autoloaders are excellent guns.

Bought at new retail, and outside of the elcheapo P6 surplus irony, the Sig generally costs more than the HK these days. Go figure.

 

[Tom Fury]

Thats' the point: See Silverado

"Good Enough" is not the same attitude as "as good as..." I love
Colt 1991a1's, but have two EGW Custom Commanders as well; I can afford them now. (I'll probably never buy a NEW car again either).

When I bought the P-85 I was being stalked (1987), and I didn't have a lot of money either. A friend of mine who was a revolver enthusiast said: "What about a Ruger?" (Not that Rugers are cheap, but at the time, they were at the bottom of the price range, and thus more affordable than say the S&W 6904 I wanted that was another $200 (another unarmed two weeks waiting for my next check).
I hadn't thought about this, but it turned out he was very right. I kept it for a year or so and traded it for a Para; got the 1911 bug and never looked back. Stalker was...dissuaded.

I think "Good enough" in that instance was tempered by "The best I can get with what I've got" (See Silverado) which is quite different from "as good as."
I believe "as good as" is false modesty; If its' "as good as", then aren't you still trying to validate your self image by competing with the other guy who has better by insisting yours is as good as AND you got it for less (than he did)? (Mine is BEST, BECAUSE it was cheaper: THERE IS NO BETTER to cost more)!

I thoroughly agree with good enough, or bargain hunting. (Sorely tempted to buy a P6; I think they are an incredible bargain, in spite of the fact I'm a .45 snob). I enjoy improving "good enough."

Bargain:value in excess of asking price. "As good as" simply equates value with price and denies that there is better to be had for greater expense than it wants to go to.

And thats' a definition of CHEAP; its' the attitude, not the piece.

Cheap buys cheap guns and insists they're "as good as" better ones, and that it's "better than you" because they paid less for it.

"As good as" = "Better than you." I see where the value is placed here; I don't want any.

You have more hope of converting an anti; it is not a rational discussion.

Cheers, TF

 

[Tom Fury]

King G:

There is better. Can't just reduce everything to the same level of mediocrity; I believe this is what I would call the tyranny of fairness, and its' lame.

Junkies become that for reasons of their own; not because someone else tried to sell them on the illusion of something better; they were prey for the sellers, but it was because they had no internal criteria to make a decision about BETTER and the guts to forego the gratification of the hit instead of choosing life for themselves; and probably thought anyone who didn't was a fool too.
You're 180 out; it was the reality that there is better to be chosen (at a higher price) that would have saved them; not the illusion of it that led them into addiction.
TF

 

[CajunBass]

Funny thing about "gun snobs." I've never actually met one or seen or heard tell of them, except on the internet. When I belonged to a hunt club, not one person there, ever laughed at my old, beat up Mossberg pump gun, and some of those guys shot guns that cost more than my truck I 'spect.

Same thing at the range. I was shooting a Kel-Tec P-11 one day, and the fellow in the next lane asked if I wanted to swap off shooting each others gun. Sure.. why not? His gun? A class III, MP-5. He paid for the ammo.

I bought a Hi-Point 9mm for grins and giggles a couple of years ago. I can hardly pull it out without someone asking "What's that? Can I shoot it? It cost HOW MUCH?" Then they shoot it, hand it back and say something like "not bad."

I've got better guns, nothing really expensive I don't guess, I don't think I've got anything that cost much over $500.00, but to me that's a lot of money. The Hi-Point doesn't get shot anymore, but I shot the snot out of it for a while. The Kel-Tec I traded off for something or other, but it worked fine. That old Mossberg would still drop a deer in his tracks with a load of No. 1 buckshot, I'm sure, but I don't hunt deer much anymore.

Would I bet my life on the Hi-Point? You're darn right I would if it was all I had. If all I had was a Bryco, or a Jennings, I'd bet my life on them too. Either of them are better than long claws and sharp teeth, which the Lord seems to have not chosen to bless me with. If they got off only one shot, that's one more than not having a gun at all would get off. If they didn't get off that one shot, well, I'm no worse off than I would be if I didn't have a gun at all. Maybe a little better because a broken gun would be harder than my fist to hit someone with.

Besides. That Hi-Point was fun at the range. I may have to get it out and shoot it again.

But no. The Hi-Point is NOT "just as good" as my other guns. It may work just as well, but it's not "just as good."

 

[spwenger]

How About Quoting in Context?

How in the world do you get that from any known facts? The article in the Dispatch doesn't allude to what guns were involved.
The Police report doesn't either. The CPD report #080886757.1 only says that Thomas' death was a homicide/aggravated murder.

What I actually said was:

While there are any number of possibilities, statistically, I feel safe betting my money that Goldsmith was using a cheap handgun. If so, it was fortuitous that it was the bad guy who was ill equipped.

According to The American Heritage Dictionary, a bet is:

1. An agreement usually between two parties that the one who has made an incorrect prediction about an uncertain outcome will forfeit something stipulated to the other; a wager. 2. An amount or object risked in a wager; a stake. 3. One on which a stake is or can be placed: Our team is a sure bet to win. 4a. A plan or an option considered with regard to its probable consequence: Your best bet is to make reservations ahead of time. b. Informal A view or opinion, especially about something that cannot be known at the present time: My bet is that the rain will hold off. My bet is he didn't do it.

You're free to bet against me. I'm betting on my sense that, statistically, cheap handguns are more likely to misfire than those of higher quality. Certainly, as I suggested, there are other possibilities, such as operator error, improper maintenance, etc. If you're that much more confident that it was one of those factors and, if you can get access to documents in the case that will prove who is correct, contact me privately and we can make the bet official.

 

[RustyShackelford]

bad guns...

Most serious firearms owners bad mouth the lower end US brands because the weapons are cheap, break with ease and do not last.

I read an interesting item from a new handgun owner/reporter who did a cover story on my state's concealed carry laws/handguns.

His first handgun? A cheap Keltec .380acp, . Now the news reporter went to the Keltec factory and had a nice chit-chat with the workers but really, a Keltec? C'mon!

If the low cost US models were high quality or had good service reps, most US gun owners would be more supportive.

Rusty S

 

[Ky Larry]

When you depend on a weapon for defense of yourself and family, you are paying it the ultimate compliment. I carry a Kimber because it works for me. When I see the posts bashing my personal choices I read them,but I have yet to read one that made me doubt my personal defense choices. Remember, your beliefs and opinions have the right to be just as stupid, silly and irrelivent as mine are. Shoot well and often.

 

[TEDDY]

low cost

how many of you are my age.you have lived in times when you could afford much more expensive guns.I grew up on Iver Johnson and Harrington & Richardson also Bluebird #1.
most of the "cheap" guns were never expected to be shot hundreds of times let alone 1000s.many guns went into a drawer loaded and stayed there for yrs.the average person did not go out shooting 1000s of rounds.and many of the so called "cheap" guns made recently were actualy copies of european designs.I have a hi-point,its accurate,reliable,and ugly I would trust it but all my guns are reliable,even the ortega 25.maybe because I treat them right.my most expensive pistol was a Ruger Blackhawk 45 colt $310 new.I carry what is comfortable whether its a 1905 colt 32 or my 1911.or the Ortega.I could at one time outshoot most of you.and I love to repair junkers.I have a number of old rifles ongoing in the shop.but each to his own.if you think expensive is the way to go its your right.just dont look down your nose at others,it sure does not make friends.

 

[cork 1]

I carry a KT P11 daily-go's bang every time I pull the trigger, after 50 rounds it aint fun, but it works everytime. Have a HI Point C9 beside the bed, uglist thing you ever saw, but I love to take it to the range and out shot my buddies with their high dollar guns. I have and still own some big names, but for the $$ these 2 are hard to beat!!

 

[Rossshady120]

i'm dumping a duracoat on my Bersa Thunder 9, ported barrel/slides, polish trigger all that good stuff don't know about throating bersa has a oversized throat like glocks that will allow them to dump ammo i hate glocks, love tec's llama's and bersa and like i said 2 think i was going to give D germans my money lol

 

[JZ06]

I used to have the attitude that"if it's more $ it'll be better". Never could I have been more wrong. Without writing thirty thousand words in a paragraph as to why...I'm just going to say I love my $200 makarov, $500 glock 19c, under $500. taurus 1911,my ruger sp 101 revolver ....BUT this one runs a little more, the five seven pistol.

To each their own....but I wouldn't trade my collection for anything else that is more money. They're all dead reliable, accurate and shoot extremely well.

 

[jonmerritt]

I can't say mine are as good as another brand, unless I have it to compare, but even that doesn't matter. What I have, cheap or cheaper, does the job for which I purchased them. That is what matters

 

[jackdanson]

Because it is the internet.

 

[spwenger]

For Whatever It's Worth...

...I received this, this morning, from a fellow instructor, regarding a 23-student CCW course he had just conducted:

...Although I tell students that I will talk in class for 30 minutes about selection of a firearms suitable for self defense, and that I have some loaners for the class, some get the urge to buy *something* before class. Two students came today with freshly-bought HighPoint 9mms. Neither worked. Both had feeding and function problems, including whole rounds of ammo stuck in such odd positions it took tools to pry the stuck round out of the jam. Dang, are these ever junk! ...

 

[WVMountainBoy]

I own a Hi-point .40, the major detractor from it being its heft. It has never hiccuped after right around 400 rds ran through it. Feeds UMC, Federal, and Winchester walmart ammo without fault. Combat accurate at 30 ft as well. I paid $140.00 for it new. If I had to stand in front of it and have someone pull the boom lever, I'd make my peace cause I have plenty of faith that it will go boom. Had a Jennings a long time ago, it never failed to fire or jammed but it would get so hot after 5 rds that you couldn't hardly touch it and the timing seemed to be off on it as it would burn the dickens out of you with the power residue after every shot.

 

[theotherwaldo]

I like the challenge of performing well with a despised firearm. It's fun to punch tiny patterns with a beater gun, especially when those around you are all over the paper with the expensive stuff.

Of course, you have a built-in excuse when you can't put it in the black!

 

[JR47]

Interestingly, there were a couple of people here who like Llama, but in other posts they're slammed horribly. They're also out of business, along with Astra and Star.

For those who post only about guns for self-defense, you may be correct in your assessment of what works, but only for self-defense. Not everyone has EVERY gun that they own dedicated to self-defense. There are a lot of amateur plinkers, and even target shooters here. I've been known to buy a gun for the simple reason that it struck my fancy, and/or the price was right.

Having a gun is the first rule of self-defense in a gun fight. If we could guarantee that the criminals would leave us alone until we had then best we could find, everyone would be saving up for custom-engraved Korths, because it could take 30-40 years to get them. However, the bad guys don't give passes to their victims.

Most people won't fire a gun, for any reason, 10,000 times in 30 years. I constantly cajole owners of guns for home defense to get out and shoot 100 rounds a year. To most THAT'S a chore.

Every one of us has a level of financial ability that we operate under. Guns are tools for most people, and not everyone buys Snap-On, or even Craftsman or Blackhawk.

The man who posted load gun, fire gun, repeat, and check results had it right. I own Ravens, Jennings, and the odd Bryco and RG. None of them are intended for self-defense in my mind. However, they have all been reliable, without gunsmithing. Mostly in finding ammunition that they liked. My PT22 would jam on bulk ammo, but feeds Mini-Mags flawlessly. Then again, I've never had a paper target, or NECCO wafers shoot back.

 

[rondog]

If you want to really be treated like a mutant, go buy a Rock Island Armory 1911. I have three of them and love them to death, I happen to think they're great pistols and so do thousands of other happy owners. But my God, are there some SNOBS out there that look down their noses at RIA's and their owners. Oh My Gawd, they're made in The Philippines ya know, they can't POSSIBLY be any good!

Yeah, I own couple of new Colt 1911's (WWI & WWII repros), and love them also, great shooters. I ain't giving ANY of my 1911's up. I also own a Hi-Point .40 carbine that'll shoot circles around anything you want to put it up against.