Pistol Toter
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I have never defecated on a gun, but I don’t own cheap poor quality firearms. You get what you pay for.:banghead:
Why do most people want to dump on inexpensive guns?
- Thread starter John4me05
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QUICK_DRAW_McGRAW
Member
alot of the bad mouthing is hear say that people HAVE to pass on. also alot of it is one person has a bad experance and then everyone treats it as gospel.
i own and carried for a while my hi-point c9with a slip on grip and a uncle mikes holster. i have put well over 1500rnds through it and maybe once in6-800 rnds i would have a stovepipe. it was more reliable that a glock 17 that a guy next to me was shooting a few months back at the range. so much so he went inside and bought one. it had 2 stovepipes in the first 600 rnds and that was it.
i now carry a sigma .40 and the only "problem" prople have with it is that the trigger pull is hard to pull. wow its the only safty and in a ccw weapon thas a great idea for inexperance people that are in the heat of the moment.
there will always be snoobs that dont want to spend under $400 on a firearm because its a good price, so its too good to be true. its just too many snoobs out there.
i own and carried for a while my hi-point c9with a slip on grip and a uncle mikes holster. i have put well over 1500rnds through it and maybe once in6-800 rnds i would have a stovepipe. it was more reliable that a glock 17 that a guy next to me was shooting a few months back at the range. so much so he went inside and bought one. it had 2 stovepipes in the first 600 rnds and that was it.
i now carry a sigma .40 and the only "problem" prople have with it is that the trigger pull is hard to pull. wow its the only safty and in a ccw weapon thas a great idea for inexperance people that are in the heat of the moment.
there will always be snoobs that dont want to spend under $400 on a firearm because its a good price, so its too good to be true. its just too many snoobs out there.
lonegunman
Member
You can always enjoy your "iron-glock" or whatever they call the pile of crap Hi-Point these days, I'm sure it will work for a while. But I am a firm believer in "you get what you pay for", and a cheap gun will fail a lot faster than a decent gun.
If you enjoy shooting at cereal boxes and consider that stellar marksmanship, then you have the gun you need. I on the other hand, depend on my skills to keep me breathing and a fifty dollar gun and marginal accuracy are not good enough for me.
This has nothing to do with being a "snob". It has everything to do with buying the best equipment possible for the task at hand. There is a reason they make Snap-On tools. There is a reason they make Decent guns as well.
If you enjoy shooting at cereal boxes and consider that stellar marksmanship, then you have the gun you need. I on the other hand, depend on my skills to keep me breathing and a fifty dollar gun and marginal accuracy are not good enough for me.
This has nothing to do with being a "snob". It has everything to do with buying the best equipment possible for the task at hand. There is a reason they make Snap-On tools. There is a reason they make Decent guns as well.
QUICK_DRAW_McGRAW
Member
i understand what you say, but have you EVER shot a hi-point, yes its ugle, heavy, and cheap. but what the hell if it breaks you can beat them with it.
it shoots 3inch groups with UMC reloads at 25yards, cant say that much for some other guns out there that cost many many times more. its fine if you don't like it. i never said it was the best out there or the most accurate, but with both my 9mm rifle and pistol from hi-point i have yet to ever have any problems that needed service, nor firing issues more then any other gun out there. and again my pistol has more then 1500 rnds through it and my rifle well over 6k, 3k of that i have yet to clean it on purpose to see if it will have problems or break. simply to see what happends. but also how many companies out there that sell firearms have a lifetime warrenty, litalone will transfer it from the 1st to the 100st owner of the firearm. they don't care how many times its been tossed around, they fix it for free and always toss in a few new mags int he box for your trouble when they send it back.
i would love to see any other company compare to that.
it shoots 3inch groups with UMC reloads at 25yards, cant say that much for some other guns out there that cost many many times more. its fine if you don't like it. i never said it was the best out there or the most accurate, but with both my 9mm rifle and pistol from hi-point i have yet to ever have any problems that needed service, nor firing issues more then any other gun out there. and again my pistol has more then 1500 rnds through it and my rifle well over 6k, 3k of that i have yet to clean it on purpose to see if it will have problems or break. simply to see what happends. but also how many companies out there that sell firearms have a lifetime warrenty, litalone will transfer it from the 1st to the 100st owner of the firearm. they don't care how many times its been tossed around, they fix it for free and always toss in a few new mags int he box for your trouble when they send it back.
i would love to see any other company compare to that.
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
This has to be the best honest endorsement of a Jennings I have ever read!
After all, a gun that jams is still as good as a rock.
KINGMAX
Member
A gun is something you may trust your life with.
GLOCK 21
Save your $$$$$$ until you can afford one. You won't be disappointed.
GLOCK has refined the process. The make a near perfect weapon at this point. Most of the GLOCK's you hear about 'blowing up' are 40's. It's that unsupported case thing on the 40's that has caused problems.
Stick to a 45, GLOCK 21, you won't have any problems.
GLOCK 21
Save your $$$$$$ until you can afford one. You won't be disappointed.
GLOCK has refined the process. The make a near perfect weapon at this point. Most of the GLOCK's you hear about 'blowing up' are 40's. It's that unsupported case thing on the 40's that has caused problems.
Stick to a 45, GLOCK 21, you won't have any problems.
MCgunner
Member
So, you're a pro? I'm a professional mechanic and don't own a snap on tool. There are really affordable tools that are as well built and work as well. In fact, on a mechanic's pay now days, I don't know many that own much more than Craftsman and that's because of the lifetime policy as close as your nearest Sears.
How many shoot outs to you get into in a week, anyway? I'm stayin' OUT of that town! LOL! But, yeah, you don't see a lot of pros, LEOs, even security guards, totin' a Hi Point?
I'd equate that with the mechanic using Taiwanese made sockets, you know, the kind you buy off a truck on a street corner, whole set for ten bucks? Might work fine on a bicycle, but don't start using those sockets to torque a diesel's head bolts, LOL! But, a Smith and Wesson 642 is well under 400 bucks new. It don't have to cost five digits to be reliable defense.
weisse52
Member
I am not going to go back and do a cut and paste, I think if you have read this soap opera you will know.
Price does not equate reliable. Several people have given example of inexpensive handguns that "meet the need", be that HD, CCW, or just plinking at cans.
BUT, when you excuse broken parts you ignore, having to smack the mag, and jamming every 600 to 800 rounds does not qualify as reliable. I do not want to take the chance that I have reached the magic number to jam when I need it.
I am not knocking anyones choice, it is your choice be happy with it. Just stop trying to convince me that your choice is reliable when by your own admission it is not.
And as far as using those Taiwanese sockets on my bicycle, NO WAY. I have way more money tied up in my bikes than I do in my guns. PARK all the way!
Price does not equate reliable. Several people have given example of inexpensive handguns that "meet the need", be that HD, CCW, or just plinking at cans.
BUT, when you excuse broken parts you ignore, having to smack the mag, and jamming every 600 to 800 rounds does not qualify as reliable. I do not want to take the chance that I have reached the magic number to jam when I need it.
I am not knocking anyones choice, it is your choice be happy with it. Just stop trying to convince me that your choice is reliable when by your own admission it is not.
And as far as using those Taiwanese sockets on my bicycle, NO WAY. I have way more money tied up in my bikes than I do in my guns. PARK all the way!
My experience is to by a quality used whatever (car, tool, gun, etc.) over buying a new inferior quality item. This being said, however, Kel-Tec is about the least expensive guns you can buy and the two I have are quite good. The middle ground seems to be the best place to go: buy really cheap and it's crap, buy really high end custom stuff and it can be finicky (or you're too nervous you'll damage it because of what you paid for it). I think this is why Glock is so popular.
DENALI
member
Why Redhawk1, you have an adress to a good brother love site? 
DENALI, sorry I can't help you there, I only go to manly man gun web sites. No cry babies welcome. LOL
I have never heard so many people worry about what others think about there guns.
I heard this in a movie one, "You want the truth, you can't handle the truth."
I have never heard so many people worry about what others think about there guns.
I heard this in a movie one, "You want the truth, you can't handle the truth."
plumberroy
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reading this thread shows me there are alot of people that have never had it tough(this is basicly a good thing)their are families out there out there that have trouble affording a$400 car to get to work. if you are working every bit of ot available just to keep food on the table and shoes for the kids that is not an option it is like telling them not to buy a car till they can afford a cadilac.Also beleive it or not there are a lot of people that just like to go shoot pop cans, boxes, claybirds, dirtclods etc realisticly unlike many places in this world chances of running into a situation that you need a gun for defence are slim by the way you can thank a soldier for carrying the fight to the real bad guys instead of fighting them at home like Isreal
Roy
Anonymous Coward
Member
Pistol Toter said:
And that's a lesson I learned slowly.
The first gun I bought was a Bryco 59. It was just before the Brady Bill/Assault Weapons Ban took effect, and I decided I really needed to invest in something with a 14-round magazine.
I didn't have any money to my name. I paid the $150 purchase price with a credit card.
I chose the Bryco based on the magazine size, and from a naive belief that any gun sold in a reputable gun store would work just as well as another.
Later that day, I drove out on the BLM with a bag of oranges and commenced to shooting. I didn't even get through the box of ammo. I experience almost every malfunction possible. FTE, FTF, stovepiping, you name it.The last straw was when the gun double-fed and one of the round's primers jammed against the cocked firing pin. I was sure I was going to lose an eye trying to clear that malfunction, but patience paid off and I was able to disarm the gun.
The shop took it back, no questions asked.
My next gun was a Norinco 9mm Tokarev. It ran better, but was hilariously inaccurate. After that, I got a Wyoming Arms Parker 10mm, which was very accurate, very nice to shoot, but jammed much too often. Lastly, I purchased a S&W 59, which i still own.
plumberroy, if what you posted is true, I think food and shoes for children are more important than a gun. Why is everyone trying to put on a pity party for someone that shoots inexpensive guns?
You guys are depressing, I think I need a trip to the gun range and shot my big expensive guns....
In all these threads of cheap vs. exspensive I have never seen anyone be able to define the limits on how exspensive is too exspensive and how cheap is too cheap. Who really cares anyway. Any reasonably intelligent person who has been reading gun forums for a while and asks questions here can figure out what is unreliable junk or over priced and what is reliable or out of their price range.
My guns are not the cheapest or the most exspensive but I am satisfied with them and I don't give a damn about anyone else being satisfied with my choice. I can't see why anyone would concern themselves with being satisfied with someone else's choice in guns.
My guns are not the cheapest or the most exspensive but I am satisfied with them and I don't give a damn about anyone else being satisfied with my choice. I can't see why anyone would concern themselves with being satisfied with someone else's choice in guns.
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txgolfer45
Member
Inexpensive is relative. Also, inexpensive doesn't have to mean poorly made. If someone needs a gun for self-defense, there are plenty of quality used revolvers and handguns that won't break the bank and will be reliable. For example, police trade-in semiautos and revolvers. I'd much rather have a quality used revolver like a S&W 65 costing say $300 - 350 than I would get a new revolver from a lesser quality company. Same goes for semiautos. If it's home defense, get an 870 Express 12 ga and learn how to use it. Should cost $250 or less.
The lesser quality firearms typically have problems with durability, reliability, accuracy, etc. You can't afford that in a self-defense firearm.
The lesser quality firearms typically have problems with durability, reliability, accuracy, etc. You can't afford that in a self-defense firearm.
Byron Quick
Moderator In Memoriam
What the golfer said. I bought some 'cheap' arrows when still a lad. I had something like three bucks and the expensive arrows were $3 each. The cheap ones were .50 each. I got five of the el cheapos.
Turns out they were much more expensive than the ones that cost more. Why? Well, if the arrow missed the target and slid under the grass on the lawn, the fletching was stripped off and the arrow was useless. As I didn't have a formal target at the time, each of my arrows was shot one time so it cost .50 per shot.
The next week, I cut a couple more yards and went back to the sporting goods store. Walked out of there broke with one $3 arrow. Shot it for months. After the sixth shot, the thing was actually saving money for me.
Later on, I bought a Raven. Didn't take me long to realize it was in the same category as the .50 arrow. It only appears to be cheap. If you try to actually shoot with the thing and to keep it in shooting condition, it will turn out to be quite expensive.
Turns out they were much more expensive than the ones that cost more. Why? Well, if the arrow missed the target and slid under the grass on the lawn, the fletching was stripped off and the arrow was useless. As I didn't have a formal target at the time, each of my arrows was shot one time so it cost .50 per shot.
The next week, I cut a couple more yards and went back to the sporting goods store. Walked out of there broke with one $3 arrow. Shot it for months. After the sixth shot, the thing was actually saving money for me.
Later on, I bought a Raven. Didn't take me long to realize it was in the same category as the .50 arrow. It only appears to be cheap. If you try to actually shoot with the thing and to keep it in shooting condition, it will turn out to be quite expensive.
plumberroy
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- 795
My point is, some here think since $300-$500 is nothing for them or an amount they can save up in a month or two it is the same for every one it isn't there are a bunch of people that would haved to save for a year and a half to get close to paying that much. some folks need to walk a mile in the mans shoes before you pass judgement on the items he buys. Today I can work a weekend and pay for a glock(god forbid lol
) I get that oportunity about every other week. 22 years ago I rode 10 speed over 20 miles round trip to work for over a month before I rounded up the money to buy a junk car and caught nile perch in a cast net to suplement the groceries , so I know how tough it can be. I also know that if shooting is in you blood ( or anything else you enjoy for that matter)and you are working your a$$ off just to make it by, with nothing to enjoy it gets mighty depressing so cheap gun to shoot once in a while beats the hell out of nothing
) I get that oportunity about every other week. 22 years ago I rode 10 speed over 20 miles round trip to work for over a month before I rounded up the money to buy a junk car and caught nile perch in a cast net to suplement the groceries , so I know how tough it can be. I also know that if shooting is in you blood ( or anything else you enjoy for that matter)and you are working your a$$ off just to make it by, with nothing to enjoy it gets mighty depressing so cheap gun to shoot once in a while beats the hell out of nothing
mljdeckard
Member
I've walked a heck of a lot more than a mile. I've had PLENTY of financial trouble. Today I'm not exactly rich, and I have a long way to go before I finish law school. I STILL say there is no substitute for a quality firearm that you know will function reliably, and it IS important enough to save some money, work some weekends, eat cheap, and cancel the cable. If it takes a year, do it anyway. Get a used Glock or revolver, an SKS, a Remington 870, and a Stack-on locker. If you think guns are expensive, reflect for a moment how little it will matter if you have bad equipment and it costs you a heck of a lot more than $400.
Like I said before, if I have someone who is close to me in any way, who needs a gun, and all they can afford is a kel-tec, I'll come up with the difference to get them a used G-19 and 200 rounds to practice with. (I have done this more than once.) Even if it hurts a little. If I didn't, it would be saying, "I care for you, mostly, to a degree, but not enough to sacrifice to help you. I am ok with you trusting your life on the cash you have in your pocket this week."
Like I said before, if I have someone who is close to me in any way, who needs a gun, and all they can afford is a kel-tec, I'll come up with the difference to get them a used G-19 and 200 rounds to practice with. (I have done this more than once.) Even if it hurts a little. If I didn't, it would be saying, "I care for you, mostly, to a degree, but not enough to sacrifice to help you. I am ok with you trusting your life on the cash you have in your pocket this week."
Edward Nigma
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At the salary I make, Glocks are not inexpensive guns, at least not new. Nothing over $400 is inexpensive for me.
I had one expensive gun, an HK USP compact. It was a great, marvelous weapon. However, paying the rent and utilities dictated I needed to get something less expensive, with things like magazines at lower prices. So I sold the HK and got a CZ P01 for only $419, brand new. With the money I made from selling the HK I was able to get the CZ, and pay a couple of bills.
I had a Rossi .357 I sold to pay some bills and wish like heck that I still had it. It was a great shooter. I've had good luck with Tauruses in the past also.
Sure, the HK was great, and Glocks are dependable. But they're way over the limit I can afford. I'd trust my life to my P01 just as soon as to an HK or Glock.
Also, I can just see myself telling my fiance we are cancelling Directv to get a more expensive gun. Yeah.....
I had one expensive gun, an HK USP compact. It was a great, marvelous weapon. However, paying the rent and utilities dictated I needed to get something less expensive, with things like magazines at lower prices. So I sold the HK and got a CZ P01 for only $419, brand new. With the money I made from selling the HK I was able to get the CZ, and pay a couple of bills.
I had a Rossi .357 I sold to pay some bills and wish like heck that I still had it. It was a great shooter. I've had good luck with Tauruses in the past also.
Sure, the HK was great, and Glocks are dependable. But they're way over the limit I can afford. I'd trust my life to my P01 just as soon as to an HK or Glock.
Also, I can just see myself telling my fiance we are cancelling Directv to get a more expensive gun. Yeah.....
Byron Quick
Moderator In Memoriam
Low quality is low quality no matter how much or how little money a person might have. A person's circumstances might have bearing on what level of quality he can afford to purchase. Those circumstances have no bearing on any particular item's quality. Poor quality is poor quality. Tight finances doesn't turn poor quality into acceptable quality. Nothing better might be possible to purchase, true. But, poor quality remains poor quality.
But, even working minimum wage at $2.00 an hour in 1972, I was able to purchase my first new handgun within a couple of weeks...Mauser Hsc for the princely sum of $110. Now, I ate some bologna sandwiches and some rice and beans to swing it but that was a matter of personal priority. It also helped a bunch that when I pushed back from the table that the family was fed
plumberroy, I really did not want to get into this, but I am. Let me tell you, I had too at one time sell every gun I owned to pay my bills, my wife and I struggled with 2 kids. It took me 6 years before I was back on my feet with no ones help but mine and my wife's hard work.
So I don't want to hear walk a mile in anyone's shoes. Hell I have been there.
I made a choice, guns or food and bills, I chose my family and still would too today.
I don't down someone that can't afford a quality gun, but on the same token, I will tell someone that they bought a piece of crap if they ask. Like I said once before, if you don't want to hear the truth, don't ask the question if you can't handle the truth.
Thank god I am able to buy nice guns, hard work pays off. I am by no means a rich man, but I don't hurt for anything.
Off my soap box.
So I don't want to hear walk a mile in anyone's shoes. Hell I have been there.
I made a choice, guns or food and bills, I chose my family and still would too today.
I don't down someone that can't afford a quality gun, but on the same token, I will tell someone that they bought a piece of crap if they ask. Like I said once before, if you don't want to hear the truth, don't ask the question if you can't handle the truth.
Thank god I am able to buy nice guns, hard work pays off. I am by no means a rich man, but I don't hurt for anything.
Off my soap box.
LOW COST or CHEAP
It has been my experience that you usually get what you pay for. I have owned and still own some inexpensive handguns and rifles.
My experience has been that for some types of firearms, cheaper is not better. I have owned CHARTER ARMS revolvers and I like them for no-loss guns. You know, if it gets lost or stolen, no-loss! I have also owned .22 rimfire and hunting rifles that fall into the same category.
Some of the .22’s worked very well, the SAVAGE Mk II with a plastic stock comes to mind. It shot as well as much more expensive rifles. A low cost hunting rifle on the other hand would not group well at all. Three inch groups at 50 yards with a scope!
For self defense, I have purchased used GLOCKS and BERETTAS for $300.00 and never had a complaint. I think that if you are going to bet your life on a gun, you should be willing to spend at least that much. You might be able to get a used revolver for less, but I have a smooth action from the factory, good 3 dot sights, adequate power, 16 shots ready to go and absolute reliability for that money.
One question, since I am not that familiar with the HI-POINT firearms, can you shoot +P and +P+ ammo in them? If not, I will pass.
Just my opinion
Jim
It has been my experience that you usually get what you pay for. I have owned and still own some inexpensive handguns and rifles.
My experience has been that for some types of firearms, cheaper is not better. I have owned CHARTER ARMS revolvers and I like them for no-loss guns. You know, if it gets lost or stolen, no-loss! I have also owned .22 rimfire and hunting rifles that fall into the same category.
Some of the .22’s worked very well, the SAVAGE Mk II with a plastic stock comes to mind. It shot as well as much more expensive rifles. A low cost hunting rifle on the other hand would not group well at all. Three inch groups at 50 yards with a scope!
For self defense, I have purchased used GLOCKS and BERETTAS for $300.00 and never had a complaint. I think that if you are going to bet your life on a gun, you should be willing to spend at least that much. You might be able to get a used revolver for less, but I have a smooth action from the factory, good 3 dot sights, adequate power, 16 shots ready to go and absolute reliability for that money.
One question, since I am not that familiar with the HI-POINT firearms, can you shoot +P and +P+ ammo in them? If not, I will pass.
Just my opinion
Jim
03Shadowbob
Member
I would not crap on anyone's choice of gun. It is his/her gun, not mine.
I don't understand though why people will buy 3 or 4 or 5 cheap Jennings, Brycos, Hi-points, etc and not have one decent gun like a used Glock, new Taurus, used M&P, etc.. I understand not having the money for higher priced guns however if you had enough money for 3 or 4 Hi-points, then you have enough money for a decent gun. If you have limited means, buy a Hi-point then save your money for something a little better instead of spending it on more Hi-points.
I don't understand though why people will buy 3 or 4 or 5 cheap Jennings, Brycos, Hi-points, etc and not have one decent gun like a used Glock, new Taurus, used M&P, etc.. I understand not having the money for higher priced guns however if you had enough money for 3 or 4 Hi-points, then you have enough money for a decent gun. If you have limited means, buy a Hi-point then save your money for something a little better instead of spending it on more Hi-points.
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