Why do some progressive presses have 5 die stations?

[Mags]

Been thinking about making another loading room and thought I might upgrade to a progressive press. While looking online at presses I notice Hornady and Lee both make presses with 5 die stations.

What is the 5th die station for?

Station 1: Size & Deprime
Station 2: Charge the case
Station 3: Seat the bullet
Station 4: Post size or crimp (not really needed either)
Station 5: ???

Also for those who have 5 station presses and only utilize 3 or 4 stations, how does that affect productivity?

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Powder Check Die between the powder charging and bullet seating stations.

 

[Mags]

How does that die work? Is it normally made for multiple calibers like some charge dies?

 

[LiveLife]

It's always good to have more choices and options.

 

[Tilos]

For handgun ammo, the case needs to be flared which is a seperate operation on some presses.
Also a case lube "die" can occupy a station as well.
Some prefer to seat and crimp seperately.

Productivity, a true progessive press produces a finshed round every press stroke, regardless of the number of stations.

Lots of good info/vids here:
http://ultimatereloader.com/

 

[Gryffydd]

On the Lee it's a good idea to use a universal decapper on the first station and a sizer with no decapping pin on the second as it holds the case steadier for the priming step.

My Hornady LnL is usually set up as:
1. Size & deprime
2. Flare case mouth
3. Charge
4. Seat
5. Crimp

But then I only load pistol ammo on it.

My powder check is my eyeball. I have to look at the case to set the bullet on it, so I visually verify the charge each time.

I could eliminate the separate flaring and crimping steps, but I prefer Lyman M expanders and Redding Profile crimp dies over what I'd get from a combo step.

 

[alienbogey]

+1 on powder check die.

My RCBS 2000:

1. Decap/resize
2. Flare/prime
3. Powder charge
4. Powder check
5. Bullet seat/crimp

 

[Tilos]

Gryffydd:
You forgot...prime

 

[Gryffydd]

Gryffydd:
You forgot...prime

Nope. I was only listing die stations. On the LnL priming happens at what you might call 1.5 (due to the fact that it half indexes on the way down and half on the way up), but it doesn't have anything to do with what to do with all 5 stations other than that you'd better deprime at station 1

 

[ArchAngelCD]

How does that die work? Is it normally made for multiple calibers like some charge dies?

Yes, the powder check die is "universal", only 1 needed. Two guide rods and tips are provided for small and large cases. The one offered by RCBS will run you under $30. It doesn't work automatically, you have to visually check to be sure powder is in the case. You adjust the rod so when the proper amount of powder is in the case the rod will move. If the rod doesn't move there is no powder or too little powder in the case. If the rod moves above the "O" ring there's too much powder in the case. It works well for insuring the proper charge on progressive presses with a very small cash investment...

 

[Randy1911]

I have a Hornady LnL. Here is how I do it.
1. resize/deprime
On the down stroke I seat the primer
2. flare and expand
3. powder charge
4. Powder cop (powder check)
5. seat bullet and crimp

the only time I don't use all station is when I am loading rifle Here is how I do that
1.resize and deprime. 2 thur 5 are empty.
I then take the case out of the collection bin and remove the lube
After that 1. and 2. are empty. After that do
In between 1 and 2 seat primer
3. powder charge
4. check powder die
5. seat and crimp bullet

I loaded for years on a single stage and wish I had went progessive earlier.

 

[RealGun]

Been thinking about making another loading room and thought I might upgrade to a progressive press. While looking online at presses I notice Hornady and Lee both make presses with 5 die stations.

#2 station is not needed on the Lee, because the location #3 for priming and flare/powder charge followed by #4 for bullet feeding (opt) cannot be changed. There is no way to fit in powder checks without loading primed cases and changing how the powder drop actuates. Splitting the #1 station from decap/resize into two stations is just a workaround to balance the turret and reduce priming issues. You will have to somehow know informally to order a universal decapping die. Product descriptions don't tell you that. There is some B$ to it, but once set up, it works for relatively little cost. I wouldn't want to do it without the support of the outstanding user group. Perhaps those with real grudges about their experience with Lee would feel differently if they had had more support from fellow users. Loading in the internet age is a different, less solitary experience. In the end though, you have to kind of apologize for the Lee LM and make do, because it is relatively inexpensive and gets a break. If you can't invest a lot in equipment or cost justify the dream machine, you can definitely get by with the Lee.

On the Hornady, I would have to challenge being forced to combine seating and crimping. Long term, the best results, fewer FTF or gauging and rework off the press, will come from splitting them into two stations.

It will be interesting to see what operation sequences are posted for the Dillon XL650. I get the impression that none of these machines are designed to reload exactly the way owners would like. You just work around whatever the machine offers. Frankly, I think powder checks should be done visually, and the press should be designed to facilitate that. Both Lee presses are fine with that. A press selection should not be controlled by a powder check capability until you get into bullet feeders or foresee adding one.

If we had a 6th station, what would we do with it? Well, just like the 5th, it depends what the machine design allows based on some stations being unchangeable.

 

[rfwobbly]

Been thinking about making another loading room and thought I might upgrade to a progressive press. While looking online at presses I notice Hornady and Lee both make presses with 5 die stations. What is the 5th die station for?

Expansion for your personal preferences. They are exactly like the card slots on your computer. If you want to add an option that's not part of the base unit, then you need a slot to plug it into.

Some people will tell you that they need a powder cop, Lee FCD, or case lube die. Some people will tell you that they need 2 computer monitors.

It's all personal preference.

 

[jmorris]

How does that die work?

The blue box has a tapered plunger that coincides with a V notch in an adjustable mandrel. When everything is perfect they align like in the photo below. If the charge is a little to high or low the buzzer sounds.

 

[Tilos]

Gryffydd:
Whew, good to hear you are priming at some point.

I like that station 1.5 name.
You should call Hornady marketing and suggest calling that thing a
LNL 5.5 AP

You have to split your royalties with me though

 

[Gryffydd]

I should probably add that though in most cases I don't see much use in having a powder cop die--what with looking at the case being as easy as looking at the O-ring--there is one instance where I might find it a little helpful. That being loading 45 Colt with fast powders. That big ol' case gets pretty dark at the bottom. Luckily I don't do that very often, and I have a nice light setup that helps a lot.

 

[ReloaderEd]

5 Position Progressive Reloading Presses

I use the RCBS Piggyback Coversion an older model. The newer models have the new abs priming system which work well for seating primers. I use an auto disc Lee powder thower with powder through die which also expands or bells the case for the bullet (45ACP) It is a very accurate powder thrower and next to it I have an RCBS Powder checker which is great!!!

I presize my brass pistol cases after tumbling in a tunston sizer die, no messy lube. I clean the primer pockets (I know Im still fussy) and prime the cases by hand with an RCBS hand priming tool. This was the primers are not deformed in anyway. As far as I am concerned, deformed primers negates the quality of the reloaded cases.
The older 310 Lyman priming tool is probably the best, but not as fast.
I spend a lot of time preparing brass and priming while watching the television or doing this on the puter.

I then go to RCBS Piggyback and run about 1000 cases at a time.

Station Purpose Comments

1 Expander Die Pre expand bell the case only

2 Lee Powder On top of power thru die which also bells the case
thrower

3 Powder check RCBS Powder Check Die best investment I have made

4 Bullet Seat die back off no crimp

5. Tapered Crimp Nice die might be replaced with Lee factory crimp die

Dumped into hopper.

I wish there was a six position progressive press with a hydraulic hand primer going into station 2. You could trim cases, clean primer pockets, etc.

 

[GW Staar]

Nobody mentioned the other option a 5 station press makes possible. You can use the RCBS or Mr. Bullet Feeder bullet feeders!

 

[RevolverDan]

Both my setups have been mentioned, but I'll cover them anyway.

I use a LnL and only load pistol ammo.

For revolver ammo:
1. Deprime/Resize
2. Flare
3. Powder Drop
4. Powder Cop
5. Seating/Crimp

For Autoloaders:
1. Deprime/Resize
2. Flare/Powder Drop w/ PTX
3. Powder Cop
4. Bullet Seating
5. Taper Crimp

 

[Mags]

Thanks guys. Since I plan to only load 9mm and 45acp for autoloader pistols, I think I may just go with a Lee pro 1000 with 3 stations. It looks like what I need and nothing more. I have a turret and single stage press for my rifle loads. So after looking at the Lee Pro 1000 it looks like the stations do the following:

Station 1: deprime&size
Station "1.5": prime
Station 2: charge the case
Station 3: seat bullet & crimp if needed

I also noticed Lee makes case feeders and bullet feeder for th Pro 1000 without the need for additional dies. Now I wonder how good the Lee Pro 1000 is, my other presses are Lee but I wonder about the quality of a more complex press from them.

 

[Tilos]

See the Lee PRO1000 (and all the others) in action here:

http://ultimatereloader.com/


Good luck with your choice

 

[prickett]

How does that die work? Is it normally made for multiple calibers like some charge dies?

It can be adjusted for any caliber. It has a rod that is elevated to the height of a correct powder charge. Anything more or less than the correct powder charge locks the rod, preventing the press from being able to be fully raised. (at least that's how the RCBS check die works).

 

[GW Staar]

Thanks guys. Since I plan to only load 9mm and 45acp for autoloader pistols, I think I may just go with a Lee pro 1000 with 3 stations. It looks like what I need and nothing more. I have a turret and single stage press for my rifle loads. So after looking at the Lee Pro 1000 it looks like the stations do the following:

Station 1: deprime&size
Station "1.5": prime
Station 2: charge the case
Station 3: seat bullet & crimp if needed

I also noticed Lee makes case feeders and bullet feeder for the Pro 1000 without the need for additional dies. Now I wonder how good the Lee Pro 1000 is, my other presses are Lee but I wonder about the quality of a more complex press from them.

It'll work, but expect to spend time keeping the primer feed system very clean and don't allow the primers to get low. Make sure the powder drop mechanism screws stay tight. And do these things each time you start a session. We found that CCI primers feed best.

The Lee case feeder isn't too bad...works fine...the bullet feeder has a more blighted history.

My Pro-1000 user friend and I have tinkered and tinkered with it to keep it loading .45 only. At this point my friend doesn't want to mess with a caliber conversion...his idea?....as they're relatively cheap, just get another Pro-1000 for 9mm.

 

[noylj]

5 stations is the MINIMUM

BAck when progressives first came out, I waited for an affordable 5 station. I bought the Hornady when they came out. 5 stations gives me the ability to perform one function per station.
Normal:
1) Resize (already deprimed when I was sorting brass prior to cleaning)
1.5) Prime
2) Expand/bell case
3) Charge case
4) Inspect powder level (station 4 is right under your nose so you have to see the powder to place a bullet) and seat bullet
5) Crimp
Alternate:
1) Same as above
1.5) Same as above
2) Expand and charge case
3) RCBS Lock-Out Die
4) Same as above
5) Same as above.
Recently, I have switched to a Dillon 1050. It has 6 die stations. Set-up is as follows:
1) Feeds case into shellplate
2) Size and deprime
3) Expand case and swage primer pocket
4) Prime
5) Expand, bell, and charge case
6) RCBS Lock-Out die
7) Seat bullet
8) Crimp

 

[GW Staar]

Another thought. If you buy 2 Pro 1000's then you are approaching (66 more dollars) a Hornady LnL AP in cost. For another 200 dollars you could get the quick changing RCBS pro 2000. It all depends on what's important to you. Quality has a price. If your budget is stuck at $120 right now...go for it, but you will most likely upgrade in a few years to Hornady, RCBS, or Dillon, if you don't get turned off of the hobby by frustration with your Lee. All I'm saying is, if you lack patience, a tinkerer's heart, or a friend that has both, you might want something else.