Why Does Having CHP Make Me A "Certified Goodguy" ?

[Treo]

This thread has nothing whatsoever to do W/ cops, W/ informing or not informing a cop that you are armed or any kind of civil rights violation.

It has to do W/ a statement I see ( and I may have even made) on this board a lot. I read posts all the time that state the when a cop ( and that's the last time I'm going to use that word ) sees my permit he knows that I'm a "certified goodguy" .

I got to thinking about that and it's occured (and been pointed out) to me that all my CHP say is that I've either been honorably discharged in the last 10 years, or had a safety class & that I've submitted to an NCIS background check that was clean the day they did it?

So does having a CHP place me on the side of truth justice & the American way?

Do the folks that say it does just want to feel some kinship W/ They Who Shall Not Be Named?

Is it tied into the sheep dog myth.

And finally, why am I typing this when I need to get off my duff and get back to work

 

[RoadkingLarry]

Don't know about other states but in Oklahoma those with Concealed Weapons Permits are statistically (yeah I know about statistics, but still...) more law abiding. There has been less than 1% of CWP licenses revoked for cause in Oklahoma since the law was passed over 10 years ago.
Having a CWP does not make you a "good guy" but I think those that make the effort to get and maintain a CWP tend to lean that way.

 

[bnkrazy]

I think it's because criminals won't bother to go through a background check in the first place. So, you've been screened by the gov't at least one time more thoroughly than most other citizens ever will be.

There are so few people that do something to have their permit revoked, it's safe to assume the majority of folks that have them are law abiding.

 

[Rugerlvr]

Because everyone that has one is "in the system." It would be virtually impossible to anonymously commit a crime, what with your prints in AFIS and an FBI file undoubtedly opened when you obtain your permit.

 

[deaconkharma]

I WAS a good guy

You know you were waiting on me to post since the last thread! Admit it.

I really have had mostly good encounters with LEO a few traffic stops but alot of license checks on my routes I have travelled.
The police themselves have said on numerous occasions, "well the bad guys dont get these" or thanks we don't need to check anything else "you're one of the good guys".

Why? As has already been said, you're in the system so not likely to go through all that to commit a crime and definitely not likely to do something to lose a not so easily gained "priveledge" (as it has become these days to excercise 2A). Also, to get into the system, you have been thoroughly checked for history of bad intentions. So, you're good.

But... (warning possible hijack of thread) then again if this "good guy thing" is called into question why can't we say the same of the other side? Same background checks for me as LEO. The uniform and hunk of metal says you are more trustworthy but why? how many CWP holders have shot police? How many police have lost their temper and stomped the @#$% out of people already in custody? compare numbers? SCHP has a pretty tarnished reputation these days as do many other LEO departments so I state facts and we could look at the statistics. WE aren't allowed to do this as it is unfair or we get the establishment answer to everything when we question WHY.
So, now that I think of it, maybe I don't know what a good guy really is.

I really don't mean to sound like I am bashing but if I use the same criteria for "good guy status" as the LEO's do then what gives? Understand, my nature is most like a 2 year old that always asks Why? why?
or was that John Edwards? Whuii? Whuii?

 

[Nate C.]

A CHP does not make you a Certified Good Guy. You might have a CHP and be a total a-hole. However, the odds are that you are a law-abiding a-hole, and it isn't illegal to be an a-hole yet. I think that's the gist of what you are reading on these boards.

 

[Treo]

Yeah I'd call that a total hijack of thread. The police are not the issue here and I'd appreciate it if you'd drop it.

Think it's because criminals won't bother to go through a background check in the first place.

True, but it doesn't preclude a CHP holder from commiting a crime after getting his permit.

So, you've been screened by the gov't at least one time more thoroughly than most other citizens ever will be.

The last time I was screened for my security clearance it was denied because of something I was arrested ( not even arraigned for) just arrested and questioned for and then released 12 years before . Never even blipped on my NCIS.

 

[bnkrazy]

The last time I was screened for my security clearance it was denied because of something I was arrested ( not even arraigned for) just arrested and questioned for and then released 12 years before . Never even blipped on my NCIS.

Yeah, but you've still been more throughly checked than most citizens will ever be. I didn't say it was a perfect system, just that those who go through the trouble are generally more law abiding.

 

[Treo]

So, should having a CHP entitle me to "special " priveledges ?

 

[Monkeybear]

Quote:
Think it's because criminals won't bother to go through a background check in the first place.


True, but it doesn't preclude a CHP holder from commiting a crime after getting his permit.

Yeah but that you've made it this long with out committing any felonies and/or going crazy dose count for something. Also it shows a sense of responsibility.

Many people carry guns on themselves or in their cars without a "permit". Now I don't agree with the fact that we have to have a "permit" in the first place but the fact that you have one says that you are serious about safe, responsible firearms ownership and willing to properly follow inconvenient, invasive and expensive laws in order to get one. This shows foresight and good judgment to me. Maybe it doesn't mean you are one of the good guys but it dose mean that you take carrying a firearm at least seriously enough to consider the consequences and choose the more difficult in the short term route in order to stay legal.

 

[Monkeybear]

So, should having a CHP entitle me to "special " privileges ?

Yes. The ability to carry a concealed handgun. Over here it also means you don't have to do the NCIS check.

I am more inclined to sell FTF to a stranger with a CHL than one without. Why? Because while they are both strangers I know that one passed an background check within the past few years that came up empty on felonies and insanity. If your not a criminal and/or crazy I'll sell you a gun. Everyone without a CHL I just kinda gotta get a feel for them when I sell to them. Granted I use my best judgment I always feel a little better about the stranger with the CHL than the one without. Thats about a much of a privilege as a CHL will get you with most people; a general sense of you not being especially crazy or violent.

 

[Treo]

Yeah but that you've made it this long with out committing any felonies

I've commited dozens of felonies, I've commited felonies W/ firearms. I've illegally carried firearms concealed.

I've never been convicted of a felony

 

[Majic]

Everyone was a certified good guy until they did something wrong. A diploma doesn't say you are smart either. You have just finished all the requirements needed for it.

 

[Monkeybear]

A diploma doesn't say you are smart either. You have just finished all the requirements needed for it.

True, but when you have nothing else to go on but that said person has a diploma you at least know they finished highschool.

Everyone was a certified good guy until they did something wrong.

Another good point. I don't think anyone is saying that a "permit" makes someone a better more trustworthy person, just that having one makes a better impression than illegally carrying a gun.

I've commited dozens of felonies, I've commited felonies W/ firearms. I've illegally carried firearms concealed.

I've never been convicted of a felony

See now the people that say; "I have a CHL even though I don't agree with them" make a better impression on me than someone who says "I carry illegally but I haven't been caught yet".

I'll treat you differently if you make a good impression on me. Maybe this treatment is what you mean by "privileges".

 

[TAB]

I have to have a better back ground check to become a contractor in CA then I do to get a CCW. So IMO having a CCW, just means you have not been cuaght.

 

[Treo]

See now the people that say; "I have a CHL even though I don't agree with them" make a better impression on me than someone who says "I carry illegally but I haven't been caught yet"

The point I was trying to make was that just because someone hasn't been caught doesn't mean they're not a criminal.

When I was a teen a bought and sold drugs (felony)

I carried a concealed weapon a military instalation.

Both would preclude my RKBA had I been caught. I wasn't and I've learned better now, but on my best day I'm just a reformed criminal who slipped through the cracks.

By "special privileges" I mean should my CHP be a get out of jail free card? Should I be able to flash it like a cop flashes his badge to get out of a ticket? I despise that behavior.

 

[Soybomb]

I'd say its proof that you're more likely to be a good guy than most people a leo runs into that day but I wouldn't expect him to trust me to be a good guy just because I have a permit.

When I was a teen a bought and sold drugs (felony)

I carried a concealed weapon a military instalation.

Do these really make you a bad guy, at lease in the sense of being a danger to anyone? How many people with carry permits are real actual bad guys? Murderers, rapists, child molesters and that sort of thing. I suspect its a very small number.

 

[Mandirigma]

By "special privileges" I mean should my CHP be a get out of jail free card? Should I be able to flash it like a cop flashes his badge to get out of a ticket?

Nope, but it is also a shame that we are REQUIRED a concealed permit to carry, and in some states or cities a permit is required to purchase a firearm as well.

 

[Titan6]

The answer should be pretty obvious. Violent crime rates are much lower among those with a CCL.

 

[John Wayne]

A CWP doesn't make you good, it makes it easier to catch you if you commit a crime. Which, in turn, makes you more likely to be good

 

[Monkeybear]

Should I be able to flash it like a cop flashes his badge to get out of a ticket? I despise that behavior.

Make a good impression on anyone and they are likely to cut you some slack, the police included. I am not just talking about CHLs, I mean generally acting like an adult when you deal with LEOs.

 

[TAB]

I don't know anyone that has not commited a felony, at some point in thier life. I mean anyone.

 

[Treo]

Do these really make you a bad guy, at lease in the sense of being a danger to anyone

I'm a wonderful guy ( if you don't believe it just ask me & I'll tell you) But that doesn't change the fact that had I been caught I'd have lost my RKBA.

I don't know anyone that has not commited a felony, at some point in thier life. I mean anyone

Mr. Rogers?

 

[Phil DeGraves]

I've submitted to an NCIS background check

Over here it also means you don't have to do the NCIS check.

By the way, IT IS NOT AN NCIS CHECK!!! The Navy has nothing to do with this. It's NICS!

 

[TexasRifleman]

I got to thinking about that and it's occured (and been pointed out) to me that all my CHP say is that I've either been honorably discharged in the last 10 years, or had a safety class & that I've submitted to an NCIS background check that was clean the day they did it?

It's a lot more than that in Texas. You can't even have any back property taxes or unpaid COLLEGE LIBRARY FINES (ask me how I know).

The background checks are more thorough here in Texas for CHLs than for LEOs.

No one is saying that it's some kind of get out of jail free card but here in Texas we've had several State Highway Patrol officers say that they feel much better dealing with someone who has a CHL. Cops spend a lot of their time dealing with the same people over and over, habitual offenders. CHL carriers clearly fall outside of that group.

If I'm stopped for a broken tail light after a hail storm (which I was in May of this year) the LE has little to fear once he sees that CHL. Sure anyone could snap at any moment but statistically I'm less likely than anyone in the state to harm anyone.

The LE that pulled me over for the broken tail light immediately asked me what kind of gun I carried. I carry a Sig in .357 Sig just like he did so we had a 5 minute conversation about Sigs. He reminded me to get my tail light fixed and sent me home.

Did I expect it? No, I'd clearly "broken the law" but that's not necessarily LE's job to go chasing every minor traffic infraction.
Did I seem like a threat to others on the road? Did I sound believable when I explained the hail had done it (not that the zillion dents on my truck didn't help validate that)? Was "society" bettered by giving me a ticket? Of course not.

So he made a judgment call and part of his judgment of me was based on that card; he told me it was when he let me go in fact.

Expecting to be treated differently for it is silly, but it's not surprising when it happens.

Now on the flip side, should I be treated BAD specifically because of the card? Should someone make an immediate judgment of me as being dangerous because I have that card? They shouldn't do that either but that happens every time a business owner puts up a sign barring legal concealed carriers from their place of business.