Why don't WE use RPGs?

[telcom911]

If they really let the RPG's fly

the Marines always have available the Mk IVV, a 40mm full auto grenade launcher found on the top of Marine tracks and some hummers, fun- you better belive it. five minutes of concentrated fire with one of these and resistance is very, very hard to find. Did I mention FUN

Manufacturer: Saco Defense Industries
Length: 43.1 inches (109.47 centimeters)
Weight:
Gun: 72.5 pounds (32.92 kilograms)
Cradle (MK64 Mod 5): 21.0 pounds (9.53 kilograms)
Tripod: 44.0 pounds (19.98 kilograms)
Total: 137.5 pounds (62.43 kilograms)
Muzzle velocity: 790 feet (240.69 meters) per second
Bore diameter: 40mm
Maximum range: 2200 meters
Maximum effective range: 1600 meters
Rates of fire:
Cyclic: 325-375 rounds per minute
Rapid: 60 rounds per minute
Sustained: 40 rounds per minute
Unit Replacement Cost: $13,758

Features: The MK19 40mm machine gun, MOD 3 is an air-cooled, disintegrating metallic link-belt fed, blowback operated, fully automatic weapon and is crew transportable over short distances with limited amounts of ammunition. It can fire a variety of 40mm grenades. The M430 HEDP 40mm grenade will pierce armor up to 2 inches thick, and will produce fragments to kill personnel within 5 meters and wound personnel within 15 meters of the point of impact. Associated components are: MK64 Cradle Mount, MOD 5; M3 Tripod Mount; and the AN/TVS-5 Night Vision Sight. The MK19 also mounts in the up-gunned weapons station of the LVTP7A1 model of the AAV and vehicle ring mounts.

Background: The MK19 was originally developed to provide the U.S. Navy with an effective riverine patrol weapon in Vietnam. A Product Improvement Program was initiated in the late 1970s resulting in the MK19 Mod 3.

 

[Zach S]

It was something like $100,000. for the tube and $80,000 for the rocket. The first one they tried was a dud, but the second one worked like a charm - it knocked out both Iraqis AND the 2 bulidings they were running back and forth between.

Boy I'd be pissed if I paid 80 grand for a dud...

 

[Teufelhunden]

I thought the most dangerous weapon in the US armoury was the radio. when you have the backup up to 30x 1000 bombs from a B52 and everything in between who needs a RPG

From a Marine Corps Field Radio Operator, AMEN to that!

-Teuf

 

[Double Naught Spy]

The problem with radios is that they are not always attached to B52s.

Put another way, where are the B52s needed by our radio wielding troops in Iraq right now?

There were no B52s attached to radios in Somalia and even attached to choppers, the radios only provided a limited link to help as the choppers were quite limited in the tasks they could perform and often the folks on the ground were somewhat confused as to their own actual locations.

Called in air strikes when there is not an active cap are not effective against short duration, small number of attackers-type ambushes or situations where there are large numbers of non-combatants in the immediate vicinity. Immediate response is only going to come from resources available at that moment in the hands of those being ambushed.

 

[foghornl]

From Zach S post above:

Boy I'd be pissed if I paid 80 grand for a dud...

Did we recover the "dud" and ask for a warranty replacement ? ? ? ? ?

/////Wise N. Hiemer mode off

 

[rich2u]

We also have the 40mm automatic grenade launcher. If I'm not mistaken its usually mounted on an armored vehicle or hummer. The thing can lob out dozens per minute"anyone know the exact rate of fire?" makes an rpg look like a joke. edited to say never mind I didn't read all the posts :banghead: They even have a nifty picture of the little darlin...

 

[Stickman]

About the kill ratios:

Marines Use Low-Tech Skills to Kill 100 in Urban Battle

With no Marines killed

Note some of the tactics used by the Marines. You can rest assured these guys are kicking ass and taking names, regardless of what the lib news says otherwise.

And my favorite quote: "Last night, they were all around us — in front of us, in back of us, everywhere," said Lt. Lewis Langella, who commands a squad of snipers and infantry on Falluja's outskirts. "They were throwing a whole lot of lead at us, and we were throwing a whole lot back."

Reminds of the one from WW2 where the Americans were surrounded and one of them said something to the effect of "Poor bastards, we've got them right where we want them."

 

[MRE]

Great article. I have a ton of respect for the soldiers fighting in Iraq.

 

[Daniel Watters]

Historical Note: Back in 1968, Redstone Arsenal was working on a reverse-engineered RPG-7 known as the XM194.

 

[goon]

At the very least, I think that we should use some of them.
I think that they should be used to supplement what we are using if it makes sense to the guys on the ground.
I personally feel that we should be using captured weapons and captured tanks to shoot captured ammuntion at the bad guys.
With some of the stockpiles that they are capturing it doesn't make sense to just destroy it.
It should be put to good use against the bad guys.

 

[TCD]

At the very least, I think that we should use some of them.

well, there was an incident last year where some troops were killed when an RPG malfucntioned on a training range and killed them. Why use inferior products?

 

[Spark]

Closest analog we use is the Gus, aka the Carl Gustav, aka M3, aka MAAWS.

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m3-maws.htm

In service with the Rangers and some other "special" units but not GP for everyone else. Pretty cool

 

[killermarmot]

has anyone seen, have video or pictures of that H&K grenade launcher machine gun thingy it's called the GMG or just grenade machine gun, I'll bet that thing is fun 330 rounds per min of 40mm X 53 grenades according to H&K's website our military uses em, someone's gotta have some video of it.

http://www.hk-usa.com/pages/military-le/special applications/gmg.html

 

[killermarmot]

ok im a total idiot there's a link to the video of it firing right at the bottom of the link i posted :banghead:

 

[Citadel99]

Once again, there is no reason for us to use RPGs. Even in combat suport units there are plenty of M203s to take care of business. RPGs are for the most part unstable, inaccurate, and bulky. M203s are none of the above.

Also, nobody, outside of SF, has the proper training on RPGs. What's the backblast area? What do you do with a misfire? Accident waiting to happen.

Mark

 

[fix]

RPGs are for the most part unstable, inaccurate, and bulky.

Having had the misfortune to have 3 RPGs fired at me in rapid succession at relatively close range, I can attest to their inaccuracy, thank God.

Another problem is the fact that they announce their impending arrival with a certain amount of gusto. Grenades launched from an M203 or an M79...or even a Mk19 are quite stealthy in comparison.

 

[moa]

Is the M79 still used? That is what we had in the Army in the sixties. I have heard stories of very good accuracy with the M79.

 

[444]

" there was an incident last year where some troops were killed when an RPG malfucntioned on a training range and killed them. "

There were a couple people killed at Ft. Bliss in the early 80s firing an RPG 7. I am sure there have been others.

I can't see any reason to use inferior weapons when we have state of the art equipment to use instead. Equipment that our men our trained on and proficient with.

 

[MrMurphy]

Although the 203 rules for general issue, the 79 still floats around in small numbers. There's a cover pic on the current issue of SOF of a grenadier in Afghanistan with a 40mm ammo vest and an M79.

 

[CZ100B]

The term 'RPG' is actually a generic word. It means any Rocket Propelled Grenade. The first RPGs were the WW2 era Bazooka, Panzerfaust, and Panzerschreck.

The RPG-7 is a fairly old design, with a lot of drawbacks, that make it less than suitable for a top-line military.

The US army uses a variety of single-shot weapons instead of a permanent launch tube with individual rockets, so they do have RPGs, just not RPG-7s.

If the US army feels that it wants an RPG-7 style weapon, there is a modern and very affective alternative already available. The German PanzerFaust 3 is a kickass RPG, with 2 different kinds of rocket available, an anti-tank rocket, and an anti-bunker rocket. It also has negated the back-blast problem by using a clever disintegrating counter-weight system.
Link to a info page

Jeremy

*edit, the auto-translate function didn't work. Oh well, I changed the link to the original page (in German)*

 

[AlexI]

For those curious about what "RPG" actually means in Russian.
The "Rocket Propelled Grenade" matches the acronim "RPG", but this is purely coincidental.
In Russian, it stands for "Ruchnoi Protivotankovyj Granatomet", which literally translates to "handheld anti-tank grenade launcher".

BTW, I think RPGs are in a different class of weapon then M204 and Mk19, so comparisons between them are not exactly valid. The Soviet/Russian army had weapons almost exactly like M204 (forgot what it was called, also used 40mm grenade) and Mk19 (AGS-17, if I am not mistaken, used smaller 30mm grenades) and they issued RPGs right alongside them.

Alex.

 

[MrMurphy]

Yeah the RPG is for antivehicle use and hard points (bunkers etc) whereas the grenade launcher is for machine gun positions, groups of bad guys at a distance, making nice holes in houses, etc. The RPG gets thrown around in large quantities overseas because there's lots of them, they make a nice big hole in whatever they hit and with one shot you have a decent chance of taking out a vehicle, helicopter or building.