Why don't you just shoot me?

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So basically, you've escalated the situation in that the BG is now shooting at you :confused:

I disagree with the assertion that the statement could "escalate" anything, especially when the entire statement is made. (you're trespassing, leave now or cops will be called)
 
"....Just shoot me?"


"Hmmmm OK. BANG!"

NOT RECOMMENDING THIS COURSE OF ACTION.

Appears to me you handled the situation very well.
 
Just my 2% of a buck, understand...

But I'd have dialed 911 the instant that he started pokin' around on my property and told the dispatcher that I had prowlers/unauthorized persons in my back yard...that I was armed and prepared for the worst should the worst come...and that they might wanna stand on it.

They usually make all haste whenever they hear the words: "Armed and prepared to repel boarders."

Then, when the constabulary arrived, I'd have been out the door announcing that I wanted to prefer charges...and then do it. The fallout may keep the idiot from getting himself killed at some future date, and save an honest homeowner from a lot of grief.

Then, if he's stupid enough to return in order to get a little payback or impress the lady, you're on record as the lesser of the two antagonists.
 
"Why don't you just shoot me?"

"Well, you are standing in front of my targets....."
 
I don't give strangers the benefit of the doubt. I would have (and have actually done so in the past) called the police and reported prowlers who looked to be attempting to steal whatever it was he was touching.

I would not even let the trespassers know I was calling.
 
I don't give strangers the benefit of the doubt. I would have (and have actually done so in the past) called the police and reported prowlers who looked to be attempting to steal whatever it was he was touching.

I would not even let the trespassers know I was calling.
That's probably the best, most stress-free response. Don't even confront the individual.

If you do choose to confront the trespasser, you better know how far you can legally take it, should things escalate. If you threaten the use of deadly force when its unlawful to do so, and the person responds by drawing their own weapon "to defend themselves," it doesn't matter whether or not you intended to actually use that force. You just escalated the situation, and you're no longer the victim.

You cannot lawfully use deadly force to defend against deadly force that you unlawfully invited.

Know your state's laws!
 
That's probably the best, most stress-free response. Don't even confront the individual.

It would pain me to a very high degree to politely ask someone to stop their illegal behavior toward me or my property and be met with the response in the OP, so I wouldn't even ask them to leave.

People only act like that because there is no recourse. When there happens to be recourse, they immediately cry foul and beg the DA to press charges against the person they wronged in the first place.

I stay away from it, because no good end can come from it.

I'll do whatever I can, but from a distance with no contact. The police seem to appreciate this as well. You as the property owner have done NOTHING. The trespassers have done EVERYTHING. Anything taken by the police is your observation of their actions.
 
If you threaten the use of deadly force when its unlawful to do so,

I am amazed that people think saying
"If I did, I'd be within my rights to do it. You're trespassing on my property. Leave now or I'll call the cops." somehow equates to "Ah'm gonna kill you, boy!! Prepare to die!!" :rolleyes:

and the person responds by drawing their own weapon "to defend themselves," You just escalated the situation, and you're no longer the victim.

If he responds to:
"If I did, I'd be within my rights to do it. You're trespassing on my property. Leave now or I'll call the cops."

by drawing his own gun, the trespasser escalated the situation, not the landowner.

You cannot lawfully use deadly force to defend against deadly force that you unlawfully invited.

I don't agree that saying:

"If I did, I'd be within my rights to do it. You're trespassing on my property. Leave now or I'll call the cops."

"unlawfully invites deadly force."

The trespasser started the confrontation, not the landowner.
 
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I am amazed that people think saying
"If I did, I'd be within my rights to do it. You're trespassing on my property. Leave now or I'll call the cops." somehow equates to "Ah'm gonna kill you, boy!! Prepare to die!!"

When he tells it to the cops, that's the way it will likely get told. No need to engage in any discussion about firearms and no need to let him control the conversation. JMHO.
 
I don't agree that saying:

"If I did, I'd be within my rights to do it. You're trespassing on my property. Leave now or I'll call the cops."

"unlawfully invites deadly force."

The trespasser started the confrontation, not the landowner.
So what you're saying is that people see things differently. Interesting. I hope for your sake, should you ever find yourself on the wrong side of a jury, that everyone magically agrees with you. Just as people are disagreeing here, jurors will likely disagree with you there. Why take the chance? Seems like a totally unnecessary gamble. That's all I'm saying.
 
Posted by David E: The trespasser started the confrontation, not the landowner.
That is something that would be determined after the fact by investigators and triers of fact based on the totality of the evidence produced by both sides. The landowner's account is one part of that evidence, likely uncorroborated, and likely to be disputed.

In the case of the OP, there is no indication that the trespasser started any kind of confrontation.

Both penalties for trespass and remedies for trespass vary among jurisdictions. We have discussed a case in this forum in which a landowner was convicted of a felony for allegedly pointing gun at a trespasser--something the landowner denied having done. In other state, pointing a gun would have been lawful, if and only if the trespass could not be terminated without the use of physical force. In others, the landowner may only request assistance from law enforcement.

One is far better off letting law enforcement officers ask a trespasser to depart. They know how to do that, how to handle the evidentiary issues, and how to report it, and they are less likely to be injured, sued, or criminally charged.
 
The police arrived almost an hour later
According to the OP, the delay did not result in injury.

Is there reason to assume that the response time would have been sufficiently short had either the landowner or one of the trespassers been seriously injured?

The OP chose to let the police handle it. That was the most prudent strategy. In some locales, that is the only lawful strategy.

I, for one, would never even think of confronting a trespasser and putting myself at risk of ambush or other harm; putting myself at risk of criminal prosecution for threatening or harming someone unlawfully; or risking civil suit, with only a preponderance of the evidence burden for the plaintiff.

Most trespassers are likely harmless unless threatened or provoked, unless they happen to be going to or from a marijuana crop or meth lab.

The attitude shown by the trespasser in this case would seem worrisome. I would want to give him wide berth.
 
Most trespassers are likely harmless unless threatened or provoked
Most trespassers are there to steal. Usually to support a drug habit. He was a prowler and should have been treated as such. The way he was searching the property and putting his hands on private items will not allow delay. I would physically stop him from burglarizing me. Hiding inside until he gets bored and finally disappears is not an acceptable outcome.
They are emboldened to do this in broad daylight in front of the home owner because they welcome the chance to get into a civil/legal fight with a home owner knowing the police will treat them as a victim. Fine, we can have the civil legal battle in court. I plan to win today and that day too. Yes it will be my word against his, but he still has to explain why he was on my property in the first place. If you don't have a valid excuse to be on my property don't act surprised if you wind up getting maced and sat on until the police arrive and I try to have you arrested.
If you submit to being a victim today, you will continue to be a victim tomorrow. Burglars should fear home owners, not the other way around.

I am also "likely harmless unless threatened or provoked".
Police only fill out reports after its over.
 
This would be a good use for non lethal projectiles. Just kidding (well maybe half kidding).

Good outcome, OP. That's a tough situation to get out of.
 
Posted by joeschmoe: Most trespassers are there to steal. Usually to support a drug habit.
Do you have a basis for that assertion?

He was a prowler and should have been treated as such.
How should a "prowler" be treated?

The way he was searching the property and putting his hands on private items will not allow delay. I would physically stop him from burglarizing me.
From the description, the trespassers had not committed burglary.

Hiding inside until he gets bored and finally disappears is not an acceptable outcome.
It may not match your ideas of taking the law into your own hands, but since no one was hurt and no one has yet been charged or sued, the outcome was a very good one indeed.

They are emboldened to do this in broad daylight in front of the home owner because they welcome the chance to get into a civil/legal fight with a home owner knowing the police will treat them as a victim.
I have yet to hear about a trespasser who would welcome the chance to go to court unless the case involved some sort of protest or civil disobedience.

Fine, we can have the civil legal battle in court. I plan to win today and that day too. Yes it will be my word against his, but he still has to explain why he was on my property in the first place.
He does not owe you such an explanation, but there are many plausible explanations that would suffice.

If you don't have a valid excuse to be on my property don't act surprised if you wind up getting maced and sat on until the police arrive and I try to have you arrested.
Let's get one thing straight: while remedy against trespass varies, in most jurisdictions it involves asking the trespasser to depart.

Arrested for what? The very idea of detaining a trespasser goes against the principles of legal tradition---it prevents him from leaving, when the purpose of the law against trespass is to keep him away.

Some centuries ago, the highest court of a state that was one of the original thirteen colonies heard an appellate case involving a landowner who had been convicted for threatening a trespasser with a firearm. The court held against the land owner. What I found interesting was the wording of the decision: in the decision, the court pointed out that, had the trespasser been threatened with death or serious bodily harm by the landowner, the trespasser would likely have been within his rights to defend himself with deadly force.

Police only fill out reports after its over.
They also take people into custody, and would do so in the event that a property owner employed unlawful force against a trespasser.
 
My only question is why didn't you ask him can I help you? When you saw him paying close attention to your canoe, instead of telling him/them to keep moving. Further do you have any "No Tresspassing" signs on your property. Sounds to me like you were confrontational.

I had a similar incident occur to me when I saw two young people (male and female in early 20's) checking out a boat I had parked in a carport near my home. I asked "Can I help you folks" Both people simply asked if it were for sale. To which I replied no it's not, they said sorry to hear that and proceeded off my property. No problem, just inquisative people. No need to exhibit my CCW, or call the police.

Sounds to me like that the young guy felt threatened by your command to tell him to "get moving" in front of his good looking girlfriend. Just my take on it.
 
...his organization will no longer be allowed to send its volunteers across my property...

And just let them know who and why. A young braggart displaying for the hotty he has in tow is nothing new. You were cooperative until violated.

Maybe these naive "no-borders no-personal-property" utopian collectivist types will collectively learn some manners from the inconvenience.
 
began poking at this and that, messing with the canoe, etc. So I opened the window and said, "Why don't you leave that alone and keep moving?"
He was not just trespassing. When he touched the canoe and looking thru private possessions he is not just a trespasser. Now he's a prowler.

Do you have a basis for that assertion?
The police recently said so in our local paper. Prowling is a growing problem here.
How should a "prowler" be treated?
Like any thief.
From the description, the trespassers had not committed burglary.
Prowling, mischief, vandalism, what every you want to call it. He is not just walking through but physically handling, touching and examining property. He has no valid reason to be examining my private effects. He's is violating my property. I will stop him.
It may not match your ideas of taking the law into your own hands, but since no one was hurt and no one has yet been charged or sued, the outcome was a very good one indeed.
Unless the prowler pocketed his oar locks, damaged his property, leaves his used needles, got what he was after, or returns later that night, after scoping you out, while your asleep. The prowler contitued unmolested and got away without incident. Good outcome for him. Not for the victim.
I have yet to hear about a trespasser who would welcome the chance to go to court unless the case involved some sort of protest or civil disobedience.
The one in the op welcomed being shot. Homeless and druggies do it for housing and non-rational reasons.
He does not owe you such an explanation, but there are many plausible explanations that would suffice.
His failure to explain himself to me may get him maced, or worse. He will also need to explain his trespass later to the police and/or in court.
Let's get one thing straight: while remedy against trespass varies, in most jurisdictions it involves asking the trespasser to depart.
The OP did that. He refused.
Arrested for what? The very idea of detaining a trespasser goes against the principles of legal tradition---it prevents him from leaving, when the purpose of the law against trespass is to keep him away.
Trespass, theft, prowling, etc. If you tell him to leave, and he doesn't but continues going thru your things, now we have a problem that needs remedy, not just wait until he's finished.
Some centuries ago, the highest court of a state that was one of the original thirteen colonies heard an appellate case involving a landowner who had been convicted for threatening a trespasser with a firearm. The court held against the land owner. What I found interesting was the wording of the decision: in the decision, the court pointed out that, had the trespasser been threatened with death or serious bodily harm by the landowner, the trespasser would likely have been within his rights to defend himself with deadly force.
Again, not the issue here since the OP did peacefully order him off his property, and the criminal was doing more than just trespassing.
They also take people into custody, and would do so in the event that a property owner employed unlawful force against a trespasser.
Yup. We can argue that in court tomorrow, but today I will stop the PROWLER by any means necessary. I can tell the difference between a lady walking her dog thru my yard and a guy going thru my pile of stuff behind my shed. One gets yelled at, the other gets physically stopped.
 
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Hello 911, there's some thieves on my property and I told
them to leave and the man said he was going to shoot me!

Im now armed and ready to defend myself, hurry!!!!

Jimmy:D
 
Well you let him on your property to begin with, and that was your fault. Remember no good deed goes unpunished. Is there some kind of easement? Do they have any right to be inspecting that easement? Learn your law and stand with it. Do not let people wander onto your property in the first place and you won't have problems with them overstepping the line in the second.

Also make use of fencing and signs. Even having a small fence that he would have to hop over has significance. And I have to say over the years I've had a number of people yell at me for trespassing when they had no signs, no fences and no way I would know that the trail I was on was private. I absolutely respect fences and signs, but I'm not a lot surveyor and I can't always tell where the line is. If there's a line where your lot ends and the stream starts get it marked off and ideally fenced off. Every boundary should be fenced, signed and locked. Nothing should be open for people to walk through--least of all your back yard. Back yards are the criminal's best friend.

Write a formal letter to whatever organization sets this up, cross copying any associated government agency, reporting the incident and expressly revoking any authority for volunteers to cross your property. Only authorized agents who have access rights via an easement should ever be setting foot there, period.

And of course get it on video tape assuming you don't have a law against filming.
 
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Posted by joeschmoe: He was not just trespassing. When he touched the canoe and looking thru private possessions he is not just a trespasser. Now he's a prowler.
Do you honestly believe that touching a canoe constitutes a crime?

Do you know what a "prowler" is?

His failure to explain himself to me may get him maced, or worse.
That would most likely get you jailed, prevented from owning forearms, and most probably, end up with civil judgments against you.

He will also need to explain his trespass later to the police and/or in court.
What makes you think so?

Forget it. It just an't so.

Yup. We can argue that in court tomorrow, but today I will stop the PROWLER by any means necessary. I can tell the difference between a lady walking her dog thru my yard and a guy going thru my pile of stuff behind my shed. One gets yelled at, the other gets physically stopped.

You do not want to end up in criminal court, where you could lose your personal freedom, clean record, personal forune, and the right to possess firearms forever, or in civil court, where you can lose your personal fortune with far less evidence against you. And even if you win, you will likely be impoverished.

If you do choose to try to detain someone, you had better hope that they do not become injured in any way.

You had also better understand the circumstances under which you may lawfully do so and the methods you may lawfully employ.

And for heaven's sake, don't ever try to detain someone for touching your canoe.
 
What I find interesting is that people somehow think saying::

"If I did, I'd be within my rights to do it. You're trespassing on my property. Leave now or I'll call the cops."

Is the same as saying: "Ah'm gonna shewt yew whar yew stand, boy!"

And totally overlook the hostile, incendiary remark that actually was uttered! Incredible.
 
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