Why heavy barrels?

[heavydluxe]

Hi all.

So, n00b question again... But can someone explain for me the benefit of heavy varmint/bull barrels for accuracy?

Recognizing that all these probably play in, at some level, is the primary benefit supposed to be the increased steadiness due to weight, decreased heating rate for the barrel, some effect the mass has on barrel harmonics, or what?

Also, on a related note: How does that effect impact performance as you increase/decrease pressures or calibers?

Thanks.

 

[mc223]

You purty much answered your question.




o

 

[chrt396]

Yeppers!

Yes! All of the above!!

 

[dnthmn]

It also adds stiffness to the barrel which kind of has to do with harmonics. And it has no effect on the performance of a caliber.

 

[Rubber_Duck]

Also, note that a shorter barrel can actually be more accurate than a longer barrel (barrel quality comes into play here) because the shorter barrel will be stiffer and not flex as much i.e. reduced barrel harmonics. Think Noveske stainless SBR.

 

[BigN]

Heavy barrels cut down on "barrel whip" and all the other stuff you said

 

[MachIVshooter]

Not much to add here, other than there are ways to find the optimal length, diameter and taper for a given cartridge and purpose. There's always a balance to be struck, save for heavy bench guns, in which you may find a barrel weighing 70 pounds or more. They don't flex.

I don't know much about the specifics when it gets that deep, but people with engineering degrees and a lot more money than me have figured it out.

 

[M-Cameron]

They also deal with heat better than thinner barrels, this means your poi changes less.

 

[Slamfire]

As previously stated, stiffness is increased. If you look at target rifles, there is an emphasis to increase the stiffness of the action, barrel, and stock. Actions are bedded in very stiff epoxy compounds, barrels are thick, actions are thick. Look at the thickness of this Bernard action. Few cutouts and very thick walls.




As a target shooter there are a number of benefits to increasing the weight of a target rifle, one is stability shooting offhand. We have fun matches a my club and trying to shoot a lightweight M1 carbine offhand is very difficult because the thing twitches with every pulse. Much more so than my 12 to 17 pound target rifles. Extra weight is welcomed when shooting prone, as any F class shooter can tell you.

However by the time you walk the 1000 yards to the Vaile Range pits at Camp Perry , that 17 pound rifle is wearing a hole in your shoulder, so weight had its disadvantages.

I have noticed that the point of impact changes less on my heavy barrel rifles with bullet weight changes or velocity differences.

 

[Art Eatman]

Primarily, the advantage is for target shooters who fire longer strings at relatively short intervals. Slower to heat and thus less change in the point of impact.

For hunters, leaving out the prairie dog shoots, there is no particular benefit. Even "buggy whip" barrels can readily achieve sub-MOA groups for three shots.

 

[BrocLuno]

Adds fore-end mass which really helps dampen the shooters sight picture. Muscles holding mass dampen pulse and jitters - all of which adds to steadier sight picture and slower oscillations. Much easier to pick the right time to pull the trigger

 

[Welding Rod]

Haven't you been paying attention? It is strictly a cost cutting measure the low end AR manufacturers came up with as a short cut in manufacturing. There are no benefits!

Just kidding of course, but I have read that many times. I am a fan of heavy barrels for shooting performance.

Let me add, reduces recoil to the shooter.

BTW I read in the Army Times this morning that the BIG Army will be going to the heavier barreled M4.

 

[joed]

I remember buying my first rifle of varmint hunting. I wanted a sporter weight barrel and the salesman was trying to explain to me why the heavy barrel. His words had no impact till he handed me a heavy barreled rifle and had me shoulder it and repeated his explanation. At that point I had a lesson in balance.

Needless to say I bought the heavy barrel rifle and have been happy with it for 34 years.

 

[Zak Smith]

Let me disagree with some of the comments.

The quality of the barrel, the quality of the chamber cut, and mounting it to the rifle are more important than the weight of the barrel. If you use a quality barrel and the rifle is built right, you do not need a heavy barrel necessarily to prevent poi drift or to have accuracy. Look at the AI and SAKO sniper rifles. The AW uses a medium Palma profile, which is thinner than almost all US "varmint" profile and the TRG-42 (.338LM) has a very thin barrel for the caliber; yet, those rifles shoot great. People have claimed the can see my .260 (26" med palma) barrel whip when I shoot it with the suppressor (extra 1 lb on the muzzle), but when it was new it would shoot about 1/4-1/3 and now it still shoots under 2/3. My bolt guns also don't change POI even when the barrel is too hot to touch.

Heavy barrels have one big thing intrinsically going for them-- they're heavier. This makes it easier for most people to shoot them more accurately because the gun moves less.

 

[ridgerunner1965]

quality does mean more than weight of barrel, ive seen it.a lite sporter barrel on a high quality rifle will often shoot better than a heavy cheap barrel,just because its got a heavy barrel dont mean its a tackdriver.

 

[CraigC]

I agree that many seem to have some misconceptions with regards to heavy barrels. I see it more with 10/22 barrels than anything else, probably because they are the most varied and the most accessible. Folks seem to think that just because it's a heavy barrel, it will be more accurate. Even if it's an el cheapo Butler Creek. Most also think they need a heavy barrel if they want an accurate rifle. Nothing could be further from the truth. The quality of the blank, the crown and the chamber cut are the most important factors affecting accuracy, not the profile. Though harmonics and heat are less a factor in rimfires. We've seen some astonishingly accurate rifles wearing sporter and midweight barrels. They make much better field guns to boot.

 

[M-Cameron]

I agree that many seem to have some misconceptions with regards to heavy barrels. I see it more with 10/22 barrels than anything else, probably because they are the most varied and the most accessible. Folks seem to think that just because it's a heavy barrel, it will be more accurate. Even if it's an el cheapo Butler Creek. Most also think they need a heavy barrel if they want an accurate rifle. Nothing could be further from the truth. The quality of the blank, the crown and the chamber cut are the most important factors affecting accuracy, not the profile. Though harmonics and heat are less a factor in rimfires. We've seen some astonishingly accurate rifles wearing sporter and midweight barrels. They make much better field guns to boot.

well you could use that comparison to anything.......thats like saying "the $1000 hunting rifle is more accurate than the $75 'sniper' rifle"......

but how does that $1000 hunting rifle compare to the $1000 'sniper' rifle?



assuming 2 barrels of equal quality, made by the same barrel maker...........i think its safe to say that most shooters would most likely go with the heavy barrel on a 'target' rifle.

 

[Tirod]

AFAIK the "heavy" M4 barrel simply deleted the M203 cuts. I'm not aware they increased the diameter. If so, a link to that info will be appreciated.

The real reason we see heavy barrels marketed is that shooters buy them thinking they get better results. And the customer always thinks he's right.

It's why they sell magnets to put on fuel lines, engraved port covers for AR15's, and padded bras.

 

[M-Cameron]

The real reason we see heavy barrels marketed is that shooters buy them thinking they get better results. And the customer always thinks he's right.

well every top level target shooter i have seen is sporting a heavy barrel........im willing to guess theres a little more to it than marketing hype.

 

[suzukisam]

The real reason we see heavy barrels marketed is that shooters buy them thinking they get better results. And the customer always thinks he's right.

yeah they market oil for your car engine, but I'm smarter than those sales people I don't put any in MY car!

okay back to reality! like what was said, you don't have to have a heavy barrel to get good performance, but in an apples to apples comparison of barrels, you get several advantages such as the ones previously stated above with the heavy contour barrel...

another thing to mention with barrels such as the AR barrels, there are companies like WOA that are taking a lot of metal out of the full bull barrel with heavy milling.. this gives a lot of rigidity and a larger surface area to act as a heat exchanger, but in the end it doesn't weight all that much, and in a 556 AR the weight to compensate for recoil isn't nearly such a factor...

 

[Tirod]

you don't have to have a heavy barrel to get good performance, but a lot of shooters see heavy barrels on bench rest and long distance shooters. The result is something along the lines of the HBAR - marketed as a highly accurate 300m semi auto assault rifle.

The serious shooter knows why, the public just copy what they see without any idea of why it's done a certain way.

Case in point, 20" rims on pickup trucks. The reason for big rims is - wait for it - BIG BRAKES. Mostly on race cars. Buuutttt, the public has no clue, buys $4000 worth of rims and dry weather tires, and tries to get their truck thru winter ice and snow. Same size brakes, which now have more leverage and worse wet road traction, leaving the driver much worse off than he was.

HBAR shooter? A pound more dead weight, still a 2MOA gun, and the shooter not one bit better off. The money could have gone to a scope or ammo.

Joe Public just thinks he knows.

 

[M-Cameron]

you don't have to have a heavy barrel to get good performance, but a lot of shooters see heavy barrels on bench rest and long distance shooters. The result is something along the lines of the HBAR - marketed as a highly accurate 300m semi auto assault rifle.

The serious shooter knows why, the public just copy what they see without any idea of why it's done a certain way.

HBAR shooter? A pound more dead weight, still a 2MOA gun, and the shooter not one bit better off. The money could have gone to a scope or ammo.

Joe Public just thinks he knows.

yes, but were talking about the benefits of a heavy barrel.....not whether or not such-and-such a shooter necessarily knows what they are.

 

[suzukisam]

Joe Public just thinks he knows.

or possibly someone has intentions of putting a lot of time into being a marksman and wants equipment he can be that shooter with.. I have and still do buy equipment better than me, that way I always no if it's a bad day at the range it's ME not the barrel I cheaped out on.. and it always tells me when I need to improve...

 

[CraigC]

I think the point being made (and missed) is that one cannot automatically assume that just because a barrel is of a heavy profile, that it will be more accurate than a comparable sporter-weight barrel. Many shooters do make that assumption. That what really matters is what's on the inside.

 

[Welding Rod]

HBAR shooter? A pound more dead weight, still a 2MOA gun, and the shooter not one bit better off. The money could have gone to a scope or ammo.

What HBARs have you shot that couldn't deliver better than 2 MOA?

What MOA level are you capable of as a shooter with guns configured as the HBARS were when you shot them (equal optics, trigger quality, etc)?