Why I chose to keep my P-32 instead of getting a P-3AT

[dsk]

I was considering trading up, but eventually decided against it. The increase in power was tempting, as was the elimination of any concerns over .32ACP "rimlock". However, I will keep my P-32 instead for the following reasons:

*One more round of capacity.
*It is smaller (not by much, but small is the whole reason for these things!).
*Less recoil and greater controllability.
*I'm not convinced the bugs and durability issues will be completely worked out of such a tiny design built around a comparatively hot cartridge.

As for the rimlock, the answer is simple: ball ammo. FMJ is loaded to the full OAL and doesn't result in rimlock issues. Shorter-OAL JHP ammo does. Why ball ammo? Because I strongly feel JHP ammo out of such short-barreled guns (both the .32 and the .380) is nothing but a morale-booster. Penetration is less with the lighter bullet and expansion (if it happens at all) will be slight. So given that the bullet will likely behave like a ball round no matter what, what advantage is there to a .380 when you'll get more recoil and one less round?

If anybody is aware of any controlled, valid test results firing JHP ammo out of a P-3AT vs. a P-32 please share it with us.

 

[sm]

dsk,
Interesting you should share this, a number of folks I've spoken with have expressed the exact same reasons for keeping the P- 32, add one more - P-32 is already paid for.

 

[WonderNine]

I'm weary of the penetration of even FMJ .380. Especially out of that tiny gun. FMJ .32ACP sounds good to me. Unfortunately my current pocket pistol only allows .32acp HP's, but I really like the gun.

 

[Onslaught]

Don't know if they ever actually made it, but Kel-Tec mentioned in their "News" section that they would be offering a small slip-in piece for the P32 mags to prevent "rimlock" using hollowpoints.

 

[9x19]

Yes, the mag spacers are available from Kel-Tec, but its also easy to make your own, as pioneered by Flyer over at KTOG.

I kept both of my P-32s, but also bought two P-3ATs.

Hey! I just like 'em!

 

[mini14jac]

I gave my P32 to my son, when I got the P3AT.
Now, I may see if he wants to trade, and get my P32 back.


My gun has been basically flawless.
I had to replace the takedown pin, but I didn't have any damage yet.
For my gun, I feel like they've got the other bugs out.
300 rounds with no problems.

My gun is fairly accurate, and you can buy .380 ammo locally, cheaper than .32 ammo.
But, the P3AT is more difficult to shoot. Actually painful after a few shots.

The P32 was easier to carry.
We're only talking one ounce, and a small difference in size, but I had been carrying the P32 for years, and I notice the difference.

I don't know if it's true, but I read somewhere that JMB was asked by the
Gov. to create the .380, and he didn't think it was needed.
So, he continued to carry a .32, even after perfecting the .380.

I also think that, in such small calibers, fmj is the way to go.
I don't feel I'll be at a huge disadvantage, if I go back to a .32.
Neither the .32 or the .380 are as good as a 12 guage.

 

[kokapelli]

I have both, P-32 and P-3AT. I find the P-3AT to be more accurate and just as easy to shoot as the P-32 and yes the P-3AT does have more recoil and shooting over 75 rounds at one session does make my hand tingle a little! The only thing I don't like about the P-3AT is the lack of a slide lock. In gelatine tests done by the stoppingpower.net group, the 32 caliber rounds did poorly when shooting through heavy clothing, while the 380 rounds performed better. While I like the P-32, I'll stick with the 380 for carry.

 

[Obiwan]

Oh no....not happening...not getting sucked into a .32 OR .380 discussion

But......

In any caliber below .38 spcl....

Stick to FMJ...then it will at least penetrate!

 

[Hypnogator]

Add my vote to keeping the P-32. I made that decision about 35 years ago when I bought a Mauser HSc in .32 instead of .380. Back then, of course, all that was available was FMJ in either caliber, and the performance difference wasn't enough, in my opinion, to justify one less round in the magazine.

Nowadays, there are lots of hot-loaded .380s that vastly outperform the old FMJ loads. I don't think the hot .32 loads (Cor-Bon & Fiocchi) are quite as much of an improvement as the .380s. Still, the size, shootability, and extra round capacity, plus the fact that I've broken my P-32 in and know it's reliable, mean that I'll be keeping it in my back pocket for a long time to come.

Your mileage may vary.

 

[cratz2]

Well.. I haven't bought a P3AT yet and I've had five P32s that I keep selling off to friends or family and the forum.

When looking at the .380 cartridge next to a 32ACP, the 380 looks somewhat more impressive but most of what I've read seems to indicate that actually stopping a bad guy with a few rounds from either one into the COM is pretty unlikely... at least within a short time frame. As others have said on various threads, if I only had a P32 or P3AT, I'd probably put three or four rounds into the COM and save at least two shots until we were close enough for a certain eyeball or neck shot.

I've never had a lockup or FTF because of the rimlock issue... even when using HPs but all things being equal, I'd probably go for the 380 just because of that. When the P3AT is available with the hard chrome slide, that is the KelTec I would choose. And I'd probably carry FMJ most of the year, at least in winter. If I were carrying HPs that proved reliable, I'd keep the last couple rounds in the mag FMJ just in case.

 

[mtnbkr]

I'm sticking with the P32 because I'm not impressed enough be the difference between the 32acp and the 380 to spend another $250 on what is essentially the same gun (I would consider a different platform for the 380 though). Also, I reload the 32acp now. Using Clarks data as a guide, I've worked up to some pretty hefty velocities with the P32. That gun is tougher than most people think.

Chris

 

[Whitey]

I retired my P-3AT to the safe. My BUG now is my Makarov 9x18.

 

[PATH]

I was tempted but I stuck with my P 32. I used full metal jacket from the start and it has functioned flawlessly through 500+ rounds.

 

[Felonious Monk]

Still not quite convinced...

My wife and I both still carry a P-32, either as a BUG or the main CCW.

I've been tempted by the P3AT as well; however, one less round on the P3AT (or TWO less with the +1 P32 extension), no slide lock and only marginally better terminal performance for the .380 hasn't tripped my switches just yet...

The advent of the CorBon PowRBall .380 round has renewed my interest, by bringing the .380 ever closer to a "legit" SD round (All of you Caliber Elitists notwithstanding). I believe it's going to be a 70gr JHP making around 1100fps out of the P3's barrel, so it's tempting me again...Goldurnit!

 

[azrael]

I own both...I carry both...I tend to carry 2 at a time...I also wear bunny slippers to the store to get cookies...

 

[sevenpoint62mm]

*One more round of capacity.

Wouldnt that be 4 more rounds of capacity with Kel-tecs new 10 round clips? You might even get a 1 round extention for that as well. 12 rounds of 32 ain't bad.

 

[alamo]

The 10 round P-32 magazines have been out for a few years now. They seem to be pretty problematic for many folks. The standard 7 rounders are the best choice. Not sure if the +1 extension will work on the 10 round magazines, least I've never heard of anyone doing that.

 

[themic]

so for someone looking to get one or the other, would you guys still recommend the P32?

seems to me like a large part of the issue is that one gets used to the weight and feel of the P32, and there's no compelling reason to switch.

 

[SapperLeader]

I have a p-32, carry it as a bug almost daily, and trust it very much. I have no intentions to upgrade, like the many who ahve already spoken up. Ive never worried about rimlock, as I carry fmj 73 grain in mine.

I have a friend wh is thinking of picking up one up though as a primary, and to him I recomonded getting the p3at if he was willing to put the practice time in. I think if one chooses the ammo carefully, it is more potent, but one should be careful about ammo and that short barrel.

 

[JohnBT]

I'm still looking for a hardchromed P-3AT to replace my old P-32. (Yes, I know about the slide exchange, and no, I'm not going to do it again. Why? Because I've seen too many slides with the front sight cut crooked and I don't want another one.)

I carry ball although I've had good success firing hollowpoints. I had one instance of rimlock years ago and once was enough.

Maybe I'll just go ahead and buy a Rohrbaugh and skip the .380 altogether. The local range already has their FFL on file with Rohrbaugh, so all it'll take is a phone call and a check(and a few months I suppose.)

John

 

[Shane333]

For those who dismiss the capabilities of the .380 ACP, have you considered the Magsafe ammo?

http://yp.bellsouth.com/sites/magsafeammo/page3.html

1,360 - 1,500 fps(depending on the type of gun and barrel length) and 246-300 ft-lbs for their weaker load.

1,620 - 1,720 fps and 303 - 342 ft-lbs for their hotter load.

These specs are for guns with barrels up to 3.5 inches long. Imagine what it would do out of a longer barrel like the 3.8 inch barrel of the CZ83!

Doesn't seem so mediocre to me.

 

[kokapelli]

shane333: If you feel comfortable with a round that will penetrate less then 7 inches, the Magsafe is the round for you.
you can find some very good info about the Magsafe round here that explaines why it fails as a self defense round!

Here is a link to some independent gelatin tests with the Magsafe that show it not only has very shallow penetration, but also does not disperse more often than not!
Click Here.

 

[roo_ster]

I stayed with the family "his & her" P32s because:
1. We already own them
2. My wife really likes the P32 & can shoot well with it.
3. Recoil is less in the P32

Nothing wrong with the P3AT, though. The P32 just suits us.

 

[Shane333]

kokapelli,

Thanks for the links. They were very interesting.

Unfortunately, neither were specifically for the .380. I wouldn't expect a .380 to perform the same as a .32 ACP or a .45 ACP.

I'd put more faith into the penetrating abilities of a 52 grain bullet hitting at around 340 ft-lbs than a 36 grain bullet hitting at around 160 ft-lbs. True, the .380 might possibly not perform as well as advertised, but comparing its capabilities with a bullet 2/3 it's size hitting with 1/2 the energy is apples and oranges.

I would appreciate, though, any links that test the effectiveness of the actual .380 cartridge by Magsafe.

As for hitting an arm or shoulder, that is a barrier that can effect center of mass penetration for just about any handgun cartridge. It's a good reason to keep shooting until the threat stops. I don't plan on loading a single bullet into a gun and calling it good for self defence. I recently read about a homeless man attacking a hiker in Arizona. The hiker fired a 10mm handgun into the attacker three times to stop the attacker. Counting on a one-shot-stop is foolishness.

The point is well taken that Magsafe, Glaser, and other exotic pre-fragmented cartridges may not penetrate as well as other ammunition. A hit to the head, neck, abdomen, or meaty part of the thigh should produce devestating results that could easily incapacitate most attackers. I do wonder, however, how they would do against the chest area.

Perhaps it's a good reason to alternate a cartridge like Magsafe with one like Federal HydraShoks.

Edited to add: No flame intended kokapelli. The links really are interesting and your point is well taken concerning penetration. I'm just wondering if anyone knows of independent (or even not independent) tests that have been done on the Magsafe .380 cartridges.

 

[patentmike]

I recently bought a P32. It's fun to shoot, reasonably accurate, and not reliable enough to carry. It's cheaper than the .380, and with FMJ should do no worse. Why bother with the hard chrome when it's designed to be a beater gun right out of the box. I am hoping I can still work the bugs out of it.