Why is .30-30 not used in bolt actions?

[Surefire]

I'm a pistol shooter that is beginning to experiment with rifles, so pardon this if its a dumb question.

Why doesn't anyone offer a bolt action in .30-30? Its a pretty good round for deer size game, is .30 caliber, and has moderate recoil (I suspect the recoil would be about the same as a .243 if fired from an 8-lb bolt-action with a good rubber stock). Most .30-30s in lever action guns have limited accuracy, and poor recoil padds (most I've tried are hard plastic--which makes recoil feel worse than it actually is).

You could even use pointed bullets if fired from a bolt-action (since the magazine of a bolt action doesn't arrange bullets so that the tip is on the next bullets primer). Does the .30-30 have inherent accuracy if you were to find a well made bolt-action for it?

Are there technical reasons why a .30-30 doesn't work well in a bolt action?

 

[byf43]

In the not too distant past, Remington had a dandy little bolt action in .30-30 called the Model 788. If memory serves me correctly, it was discontinued in either the late '70 or early '80s.

A good friend (may he Rest In Peace) had one of these rifles. It was his favorite rifle.

I have no idea why it was discontinued.

 

[Oldnamvet]

There have been 30/30 bolt actions. I think one of the reasons they are not popular is that you would have to reload for spire point bullets for some ballistic advantage. The problems that manufacturers would have if they offered 30/30 in spitzer would be horrific. People would load them into their lever guns and blow up the tubular magazines as well as themselves.
And all the lever guns I have tried in 30/30 gave very acceptable hunting accuracy.

 

[rangerruck]

at collectors firearms in houston, they have a bunch of used ones, problem is, with most of them , they are not only made in the past by the big boys, but some former obscure makers. So even the ones from the big boys are rare. their cost is prohibitive, usually 500 bucks plus.

 

[rockstar.esq]

For that matter why isn't it used in semiautos or pumps? My take on it is that it has more to do with convention than anything else.

 

[Deer Hunter]

"most I've tried are hard plastic--which makes recoil feel worse than it actually is"

... Recoil with a 30-30?

 

[Surefire]

... Recoil with a 30-30?

Yes, the hard plastic stocks are uncomfortable with the .30-30 IMO. Put a rubber stock on, and its a piece of cake.

 

[Marshall]

Actually, the 30-30 and lever action just go together too well. I suspect the sales would not be there if they offered them in bolt action again. I mean, why have it in a bolt action? It's too good of a short range cartridge and fits the quick lever action quite well.

 

[ChristopherG]

Rimmed cartridges don't stack up in magazines as easily and cleanly as non-rimmed cartridges, and the 30-30 is a rimmed cartridge.

I'd like a single shot in 30-30; or even better, 7-30 waters. Using aerodynamic bulllets and the strong chamber of a TC Encore or the like, it'd be a fun way to get a medium-range rifle with ample power (and the comparative reloading simplicity of a rimmed cartridge).

So a pump-gun would make some sense in 30-30, if it were a tube mag; but in a box mag, it's got no advantage (other than nostalgia) over any number of .30-cal cartridges.

 

[dmckean44]

There are a few 7.62x39 bolt actions that are balistically mild. Finding match quality ammo for these may be a little tough.

 

[Deer Hunter]

I've never found the 30-30 to kick. It's a slight "thump", kind of like my dad's SKS. Then again, maybe my shoulder nerve endings have all been seared to pieces when I was shooting my 6 pound 3" magnum twelve gauge for the first time.

 

[mustanger98]

I haven't read the other replies yet, but here's my thoughts.

Why is .30-30 not used in bolt actions?

They are, but not that often. There's matters of popularity that drive the markets and most boltgunners seem to want something besides .30-30. However, I have a Savage Model 340 in .30-30 that's a fine shooter. Remington made the Model 788 and the Stevens line included what I believe is the Model 25 which is IIRC the same as the 340 Savage. They haven't made those since the early to mid 1980's as I understand it.

Why doesn't anyone offer a bolt action in .30-30? Its a pretty good round for deer size game, is .30 caliber, and has moderate recoil (I suspect the recoil would be about the same as a .243 if fired from an 8-lb bolt-action with a good rubber stock). Most .30-30s in lever action guns have limited accuracy, and poor recoil padds (most I've tried are hard plastic--which makes recoil feel worse than it actually is).

Well, there's the popularity angle I just mentioned. They may also figure a rimmed cartridge such as .30-30 won't feed as smoothly from the box magazine, but I don't know about that as my 340 feeds pretty smooth.

The .30-30 round is a real good round for deer and it's killed many many deer. Recoil? What recoil? My old Winchester '94 top eject from 1971 don't hardly kick and the Savage 340 I don't feel at all. Stock fit has a lot to do with that. If a levergun kicks you too hard, it's not because it's an inferior weapon, but rather because the length of pull ain't right for you. Length of pull can be remedied by a different length of stock. Also, consider a good recoil pad that you'd wear while shooting, although I've not needed one.

You could even use pointed bullets if fired from a bolt-action (since the magazine of a bolt action doesn't arrange bullets so that the tip is on the next bullets primer). Does the .30-30 have inherent accuracy if you were to find a well made bolt-action for it?

I've fired spitzers in my 340 Savage. They work well, but the handloads still need a bit of tweaking to be exactly what my rifle shoots well. However, according to Layne Simpson's article in Shooting Times, a spitzer makes the .30-30 into a 300yd deer getter as opposed to being limited to 200yds and less by round or flat nose bullets.

Are there technical reasons why a .30-30 doesn't work well in a bolt action?

Not really, AFAIK.

 

[mustanger98]

And all the lever guns I have tried in 30/30 gave very acceptable hunting accuracy.

I've had very good accuracy from my Winchester '94 that I mentioned in my last post. It improved drastically when I went to the #2 tang sight.

However, the other reason somebody might complain of poor accuracy is they don't know how to shoot a levergun. I experimented once... tried to shoot my '94 sillouette style. It was all over the place. If I hold it with my hand under the forearm like the design calls for, it does very well.

 

[Libertyteeth]

My grandfather had an old .30 Remington pump, which is very similar to the .30-30, but has a much reduced rim.

 

[Deer Hunter]

I may be mistaken, but isn't the .30 caliber remington just a rimless 30-30?

 

[Gewehr98]

Huh?

Why is .30-30 not used in bolt actions?

Better not tell that to the folks who own Remington 788, Winchester Model 54, and Savage Model 340 bolt actions, all chambered at one time or another for .30-30 Winchester. I sadly regret losing my .30-30 Savage Model 340 to my ex-wife, to this day.

Yes, the .30 Remington is simply a rimless .30-30 Winchester, better suited to feeding in the Model 8 and 81 autoloading rifles. Likewise, the .32 Remington is simply the .32 Winchester Special sans rim, using the same premise.

 

[Langenator]

BTW, don't tell the Russians that you can't use rimmed rounds in a vertical magazine rifle.

And the patent on the Mosin-Nagant magazine/interruptor design has almost certainly expired.

 

[dodge]

Savage made a pump action in 30-30 back in the 70's or early 80's. It was a Model 170 I believe. You maybe able to find one with a lot of research. This rifle was also avialable in 35 Rem too if I remember rightly.

 

[Nathanael_Greene]

I was amazed the first time I saw a 30-30 bolt gun, and later I bought it, thinking it was some kind of rarity. Since then, I've come across several, and all of them for well under $200 (Savage 340 and variants; mine is a Western Field).

Pretty cute little rifles...but not as cute as a Marlin 336!

 

[Firehand]

I think it's a case of the bolt rifles chambered for it not really being advertised, and a lot of people just not seeing an advantage to them over a lever rifle since you can't buy factory ammo with spitzer bullets. At least not until Hornady came out with their new LeveRevolution ammo.

Picked up a Savage 340 in .30-30 about a year ago, nice rifle. Stuck a B-Square mount and a scope on it, and it'll shoot a touch over 1" groups at 100 yards with the same handloads I use in my Model 94. It's a light, handy rifle.

I'm going to pick up some proper length spitzers to handload, and see just what it'll do. For that matter, some of the Hornady.

 

[xtarheel]

Ssssh! Don't let the British know that their rimmed .303 won't feed well from a magazine in a bolt action rifle.

 

[1911user]

The 30-30 case doesn't really benefit from the stronger bolt action receiver. IIRC it's about a 40,000 psi round and lever actions can handle that. For handloading purposes, a stronger case makes more sense than 30/30 in a good bolt gun which can handle 50-60,000 psi. Except for the spitzer bullets (and maybe stiffer action), there isn't much advantage to a 30/30 bolt gun and quite a few downsides (weight, second shot speed, rimmed cartridges in a box mag). The 308 with a similar size case has so much more potential in the right action.

 

[Shooter973]

30-30 Bolt actions!!!

I have 2 of the Rem 788's in 30-30 that I use exclusively for cast bullets!!!
They are more accurate than a lever gun. Both will shoot a good load to less than an inch if I do my part. And the cost of cast 30-30 ammo is very small using surplus powders and "free" bullets, only a couple of cents for the gas check and a couple of cents for the powder. Maybe $1.00 per box!!! Hitting the 300 yard gong, 10 times in a row, priceless!!! I bought both of these rifles years ago, and have never ever seen another for sale.

 

[wrc]

Surefire: Why doesn't anyone offer a bolt action in .30-30?

Lack of demand? I have never seen a bolt .30-30 up for sale. I have seen an NEF single-shot in .30-30 priced pretty low that has remained unsold for quite a while now.

I love the .30-30, especially with the new LEVERevolution rounds. It seems to me that it sticks around because of tradition, and tradition dictates a lever-action.

 

[arizona]

mustanger said:

"If I hold it with my hand under the forearm like the design calls for, it does very well."

I have not heard of this...please go into more detail. Perhaps understanding exactly what you mean by "your hand under the forearm" will help with my accuracy.

Is there a certain way you place your hand..a certain area?