Why is it bad to store ammo in a safe?
- Thread starter Bill2e
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eflatminor
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You have room in your safe for ammo?
Then you need more guns!
Then you need more guns!
The reason I try to avoid putting ammo in my safe is because I don't want it cooking off in there and ruining my guns.
Fireproof safes aren't really fireproof, it will still get plenty hot inside there. If you have ammunition in there it will very likely cook off which will NOT be good for your guns or anything else you have stored in there.
Fireproof safes aren't really fireproof, it will still get plenty hot inside there. If you have ammunition in there it will very likely cook off which will NOT be good for your guns or anything else you have stored in there.
A friend of mine went out and bought an aluminim truck toolbox on sale along with several dessicant packs to store his ammo,which consists mostly of shotgun shells.
He also put two hasps with matching key locks on the boxes for a little extra security.
A cheaper alternative for sure.
He also put two hasps with matching key locks on the boxes for a little extra security.
A cheaper alternative for sure.
22-rimfire
Member
Nothing wrong with storing ammo in a safe if that is what you want to do. I believe the idea is to keep flamable materials out of a safe due to a fire (ie destroying your firearms) and ammo in a safe is not easily accessible.
I have a metal cabinet for ammo. That is only the stuff I use. Quite a bit is stored in metal ammo cans. I tend to forget about it and run onto another can full of something when I'm cleaning up. You know.... another 500-1000 rounds of this or that I forgot about.
I have a metal cabinet for ammo. That is only the stuff I use. Quite a bit is stored in metal ammo cans. I tend to forget about it and run onto another can full of something when I'm cleaning up. You know.... another 500-1000 rounds of this or that I forgot about.
There are two possiblities:
It is a well known fact that two guns in a safe will reproduce. Reproduction occurs as exponential rates. What starts as two becomes four, then eight, then sixteen, etc. Soon that "18" gun safe that had plenty of room when purchased is full and a new and/or bigger safe has to be purchased. Some how, guns confined in a safe are stimulated to multiply by the safe. It is assumed the safe might have the same effect on ammo. Starting with a few hundred or a few thousand round of ammo store in a safe, exponential increase of numbers would get out of control. The safe would burst in a short period of time.
Or.....
It is known that guns that are loaded and not locked up will spontaneously cause death and destruction. They will grow legs, run to the local school yard, and all by themselves cause mayhem. As a result, brilliant politicians who were too intelligent to be employed by NASA try to introduce legislation requiring guns to be locked up. Puting these guns in the solitary confinement of a safe agitates them. They get angry from being cramped in a dark place. Putting ammunition in the same confined space will cause them to spontaneosly load themselves and shoot someone when the door is opened.
.....it's just "common sense" gun safety.
It is a well known fact that two guns in a safe will reproduce. Reproduction occurs as exponential rates. What starts as two becomes four, then eight, then sixteen, etc. Soon that "18" gun safe that had plenty of room when purchased is full and a new and/or bigger safe has to be purchased. Some how, guns confined in a safe are stimulated to multiply by the safe. It is assumed the safe might have the same effect on ammo. Starting with a few hundred or a few thousand round of ammo store in a safe, exponential increase of numbers would get out of control. The safe would burst in a short period of time.
Or.....
It is known that guns that are loaded and not locked up will spontaneously cause death and destruction. They will grow legs, run to the local school yard, and all by themselves cause mayhem. As a result, brilliant politicians who were too intelligent to be employed by NASA try to introduce legislation requiring guns to be locked up. Puting these guns in the solitary confinement of a safe agitates them. They get angry from being cramped in a dark place. Putting ammunition in the same confined space will cause them to spontaneosly load themselves and shoot someone when the door is opened.
.....it's just "common sense" gun safety.
feedthehogs
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To the guys who think that the moisture content in the safe is unsafe for ammo, but okay for guns is just silly.
You think all the ammo that everyone buys is manufactured and stored in air conditioned buildings?
I'm sure the 30 year old military surplus has been stored in air conditioning also, right?
Come on people, use your brains and think.
You think all the ammo that everyone buys is manufactured and stored in air conditioned buildings?
I'm sure the 30 year old military surplus has been stored in air conditioning also, right?
Come on people, use your brains and think.
JohnBT
Member
"coupled with the near total seal of air you get in the safe."
I've never seen a gun safe that was airtight. The door seals don't expand until the heat from the fire hits them. Try an experiment. Close the safe door on a dollar bill and lock it. Now, gently pull the bill out. It's not airtight. Even if the gap is only a fraction of an inch, that gap is as long as the four sides of the door. The opening could easily total 2 or 3 square inches or more.
If they were airtight a GoldenRod wouldn't work.
John
I've never seen a gun safe that was airtight. The door seals don't expand until the heat from the fire hits them. Try an experiment. Close the safe door on a dollar bill and lock it. Now, gently pull the bill out. It's not airtight. Even if the gap is only a fraction of an inch, that gap is as long as the four sides of the door. The opening could easily total 2 or 3 square inches or more.
If they were airtight a GoldenRod wouldn't work.
John
okay, that may be a bit too stongly stated on my part. Still, take a bathroom and something bad smelling happens inside, and the culprit closes a tight fitting door behind him. It is not air tight, but the smell will linger in that confined space for a LONG time before it diffuses out the crack at the bottom and all the tiny little pours in the wall.
Same with a safe, while it is not air tight, if you locked a dog in there I'd expect it to not survive the night due to lack of oxygen.
But besides, if moisture WASN'T a problem in gun safes, why are there so many dessicant packages sold for safes, and so many 'golden rod' dehumidifiers?
Guns can get pretty good protection from a coat of oil, but adding a dehumindifier is even better. I don't coat my ammo with oil, so it is already down one less layer of protection
offroaddiver
Member
I think I have more money invested in guns than what I have in ammo. So let the ammo go pop in ammo cans and lockers/toolboxes. Same with the reloading powder. I also don't store cleaning materials near the guns incase the oil or cleaner drips on scopes or wood stocks.
One reason, is that many "safes" aren't true safes at all, but are actually fire-resistant RSCs. Residential Security Containers. "Fire-resistant" means they actually have moistened, or moisture-retaining, material built right in.
That's why people often need golden rods and dessicant packs in their gun "safes".
Pure Kustom
Member
Graffunder, Might be the only one. I will have to check. It is very tight. also on of the most expensive safes.
I think you are misinformed. No safe is fire resistant. They have a fire rating. The rating states how long and how hot the safe will get inside. Mine I think is 350 for 90 minutes. Which means that it will not get hotter than that for up to 90 minutes after that, it is all over. I actually have 4 safes in my safe. Because what most people forget is that paper will be burned at 350 degrees. So I put important documents in the cheap sentry fire rated safes at Walmart.
a1abdj
Member
Safes are not suitable for ammo storage because they will not properly vent an explosion. It is OK to store small quantities of ammo in the safe, just don't pack it full.
Most safes are not air tight, and there have been numerous reports of children that got locked inside of them without suffocation. A truely air tight safe would have a compression system mounted on the door. You see this most often on older bank vault doors.
If you are storing loaded weapons inside the safe, make sure they are pointed in a safe direction. In a fire, a gun could discharge due to the heat. The steel in most gun safes is so then, it would penetrate easily.
Graffunder makes some nice safes, but they top out in the $15,000 range. We sell freestanding safes (some of them the size of your night stand) that sell in the $100,000 to $300,000 range.
Most safes are not air tight, and there have been numerous reports of children that got locked inside of them without suffocation. A truely air tight safe would have a compression system mounted on the door. You see this most often on older bank vault doors.
If you are storing loaded weapons inside the safe, make sure they are pointed in a safe direction. In a fire, a gun could discharge due to the heat. The steel in most gun safes is so then, it would penetrate easily.
Graffunder makes some nice safes, but they top out in the $15,000 range. We sell freestanding safes (some of them the size of your night stand) that sell in the $100,000 to $300,000 range.
I barely have room for the guns and the mags, plus a few things that I own that live in the safe because, well, it's a safe....like our passports. Beyond that, there is no room in that inn. The ammo has to shift for itself on shelves.
But I'm curious to see what Tom has to say. Did anybody PM him?
Springmom
But I'm curious to see what Tom has to say. Did anybody PM him?
Springmom
Actually, no. If you watch the Mythbusters show, what happened is pretty much what you would expect to happen - when a round cooked off, the hot gasses pushed the brass and the bullet apart. But since those gasses weren't constrained - brass is pretty malleable when it's unsupported - the gasses just expanded inside the oven.
I think that they were using .223 rounds (I don't recall the show exactly, maybe they did use one 50 BMG). As I recall, none of the rounds even made it though the glass in the oven door.
I suspect the major reason for avoiding putting ammo in a safe is that in the case of a fire hot enough to start cooking off rounds - you have in fact created a pipe bomb (maybe a big square boxy one).
I read some set of gunpowder shipping/storage regulations a while back, and as I recall, for large amount of gunpowder were supposed to be stored in wooden boxes just for this reason - the wood will shatter while gasses inside are at relatively low pressures.
Mike
Acera
Member
Thanks RPCVYemen, I am currently moving all my ammo to a new storage location.............Hopefully I will remember to take it out before I preheat the oven for a pizza
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SAWBONES
Member
There's nothing specifically wrong with storing modest amounts of ammunition in a "safe" or lockable storage cabinet, as far as I can see.
Storing your guns in the same cabinet as the ammunition? Why not?
Personally, I don't have room for both in my safe, so they're stored separately.
Storing your guns in the same cabinet as the ammunition? Why not?
Personally, I don't have room for both in my safe, so they're stored separately.
From what I remember, milspec ammo cans are designed to keep their contents reasonably contained in the event of a cook off to prevent them from being a larger hazard. IE it'll vent, but catch the bullets/fragments.
During a cook off the metal will bend enough to vent while still keeping all/most of the metal inside.
edit - looks like I was right: http://www.almc.army.mil/alog/issues/MarApr06/ammo_readines.html
Man, ammo cans are more complicated than I thought!
Back on the topic - I figure it's the generic 'keep guns and ammo separate' spiel we hear all the time.
During a cook off the metal will bend enough to vent while still keeping all/most of the metal inside.
edit - looks like I was right: http://www.almc.army.mil/alog/issues/MarApr06/ammo_readines.html
Man, ammo cans are more complicated than I thought!
Back on the topic - I figure it's the generic 'keep guns and ammo separate' spiel we hear all the time.
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