Why is the .40 cal still around?

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WrongHanded said:
"Why is the .44 Magnum still around?"
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Certainly not for daily self-defense against two-legged thugs on a common basis. (I'm sure this will bring about a response from the needle in a haystack .44 magnum daily carrier)
 
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Some old guys like me just grew up with the idea of an adequate caliber to get the job done started with a 4 so there's that too. LOL A 9mm isn't any larger than it was when I was a kid regardless of new projectiles, new projectiles are also available in the calibers that start with 4.
 
Personally, if I were to go to something bigger than a 9mm it would most definitely be 40S&W. The capacity is still pretty good in comparison to 9mm and the handgun size is still very concealable and user friendly.

I may need to pick up a couple more 40 LEO turn-ins before they dry up. They are a steal and some very good platforms are being offered.
 
<*(((>< said:
I would like to get a CMMG radial delayed bolt setup or a roller delayed HK style .45 as it would eliminate a lot of the port pop that happens on direct blowback especially when suppressed. I have a 9mmAR and while it is nice, it would be nice to get away from direct blow back.
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In addition to JR carbine with 9/40/45 conversion kits, I am currently running PSA 5.4 oz (H3) buffer weight with PSA hybrid bolt/upper with combined 20 oz weight and looked at heavier 7.5 oz buffer but currently seriously considering going with Taccom 3 stage buffer based on 3-gunner evaluations on Brian Enos forum where they compared 7.5-10 oz buffer vs Taccom 3 stage buffer vs CMMG radial delayed bolt (which was meant to run with lighter 3.8 oz buffer weight now shipping with around 3-3.4 oz buffer and requires enlarged ejection port lower receiver like for 458 Socom) - https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/258538-cmmg-guard-tuning-9mm/page/3/?tab=comments#comment-2925119

Reason for need for enlarged port is due to ejector on bolt and shorter 9mm case starting to eject sooner than longer .223/5.56 case.

And CMMG radial delayed BCG Guard uppers are shipped with lighter than 3 oz buffers (now 3.4 oz) for "softer" recoil impulse but many match shooters report comparable recoil impulse of blowback PCCs using heavier buffers. There has been report of unreliable spent case ejection (or no ejection) with causes from extractor capturing case rim to tight bolt face holding case rim and bolt failure at 1200-1500 rounds (As to bolt failure at 1200-1500 rounds was due to ejector/extractor spring failures and CMMG since has replaced the springs with heavier springs). On top of this, many are reporting Guard upper requires mag in receiver to be 1/8" to 1/4" lower or bolt lug will scratch/scrape the round in magazine.

While some report unreliable operation with CMMG radial delayed BCG depending on receiver/magazine, almost everyone is reporting reliable operation with Glock dedicated lowers/EndoMag with AR lowers.

Here's what I recently shared with a THR member in PM about building a PCC:

1. No competition PCC - Blowback action with 9mm buffer - For recreational plinking, I would go with proven reliable uppers like PSA regardless of barrel twist rate as I have been happy with their uppers in my several builds. I would also stay with PSA/H3 weight buffers as since I reload, I can adjust my bullet weight/powder/charge to optimize accuracy. And since I am not competing, red dot jumping around (flatness of muzzle) and recoil impulse (softness) are not an issue.

2. Competition PCC - Local club level - Blowback action with 2/3 stage buffer - For competition, I want the red dot to stay still for faster follow up shots (faster splits). While CMMG delayed BCG provides "softer" recoil impulse than blowback with heavier buffer weights, "flatness" provided is comparable as expressed by BE 3-gunners in this Blowback vs CMMG delayed BCG thread - https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/267282-cmmg-guard-vs-blowback-pcc-with-specialty-buffers/

And why many 3-gunners went to 2/3 stage buffers.

So I would build my PCC upper with most accurate barrel make and twist rate (1:10 vs 1:16 comparison range test) with Taccom 3 stage adjustable recoil PCC buffer for reasons explained in the video.

 
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Cowhide Cliff said:
I think the more appropriate is why not the 40 and why everyone is suddenly thinking the little 9mm is somehow superior to the larger round. I carry one because it's a good compromise between the 45 and the 9mm. In the same size gun with comparable recoil both carrying what I consider enough rounds for a self defense situation why would I want to carry a little mediocre 9mm when I can use a round with a 40 grain heavier projectile traveling close to the same speed?
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If you get 165gr Underwood loaded .40 Gold Dots (1200fps), it really is running at the same velocity as most 124gr 9mm (which don't hit advertised numbers)
 
Aim1 said:
Doesn't the .40 cal have very similar characteristics to the 9mm?

If a standard 9mm pistol can carry more rounds with less recoil and with the quality and technology of todays ammo making the 9mm nearly capable of the .40 cal, why is the .40 cal still around?
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OP, this you?
stop_liking_file.jpg



I'm kidding around, of course.

The 40 is around because people still shoot/buy it.

I think it could be as simple as that...
 
I’m an old guy who liked the 9mm since before there was a .40. I got my Browning HiPower when most cops were carrying Model 10’s.
So, I never had much interest in the .40...until the cheap police surplus pistols hit the market.
I’m a Glock fan, owning both a G17 and G26. I couldn’t resist the cheap surplus, and bought a Gen4 G22, with night sights, and about 99% new looking...for $300.
What a great shooting pistol! I like it so much, it has become my house pistol, loaded with 180gn HST.
I really believe these cheap pistols may spark a resurgence of the .40, amongst civilians.
 
amd6547 said:
I really believe these cheap pistols may spark a resurgence of the .40, amongst civilians.
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I too went from Glock 17/19/26 to G22/23/27 but with addition of 40-9 conversion barrels.

To me, popularity of 40S&W never went away.

How do I know?

I gauge popularity by spent brass on range floor. Over the decades, amount of 380Auto/45ACP brass decreased in numbers but 9mm and 40S&W brass continue to outnumber other caliber brass.

And yet no one says 380Auto/45ACP are dead calibers. ;) :D
 
WrongHanded said:
Because, contrary to internet lore, the 9mm is NOT made of magic!

If the capabilities of the 9mm get too much more exaggerated, we'll be seeing threads titled "Why is the .44 Magnum still around?"
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9 mm is every bit as good as 40
40 is as good as 10mm
10mm is as good as 357 mag
357 mag can't be worse than 41 mag
Really? why get a 44 mag when you can just have a 41 mag that's just as good?

THEREFORE *drumroll*

9mm is AT LEAST as good as 44 mag. You get all the power with a fraction of the recoil and pretty much unlimited capacity.
 
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.40 S&W is "still around" for much the same reasons as the 9mmP, .38 S&W Special, .45ACP, etc are still around ...

It works. It's people who tend to promote and stridently shout about their fickleness and shifting allegiances for low power service/defensive calibers. ;)

The .40 S&W, especially in its original heavy-for-caliber rendering, is still just as capable as it was when first released in LE service in '90. Some strides in JHP development have made it even better, as well.

It still being a bit harder on both guns and shooters hasn't changed, either.

Now, people of average/casual shooting skillsets are always going to find it easier to meet minimal training and qualification standards with lesser recoiling service calibers, so the 9mmP is still going to enjoy cyclical preference and attention, too. ;)

The world continues to spin 'round ...
 
psyopspec said:
But nor is the .40, no?
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Of course the .40 is made of magic. Bad Magic!

It makes for lower capacity and a heavier carry weight than 9mm. But it's basically the same diameter and weight of projectile. It produces (with absolute certainty) the exact same wounding and energy transfer. And beats your gun to death.

All whilst quadrupling the felt recoil and causing 5 minute split times, because you have to gun find where your gun landed after it flew out of your hands.

I'm joking of course. There's a scale, and generally the more powerful the round, the more recoil you pay for it. Everyone gets to pick the best compromise for them.
 
<*(((>< said:
Certainly not for daily self-defense against two-legged thugs on a common basis. (I'm sure this will bring about a response from the needle in a haystack .44 magnum daily carrier)
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I was thinking more along the lines of those suggesting the 9mm is as powerful as .357 mag. And those who invariably suggest 9mm is a better option for grizzly defense than a big bore revolver. ;)
 
LiveLife said:
Yes.

I have helped select guns for females shooters quite a few times over the decades. I always advise the boyfriends/husbands to stay quiet and allow the girlfriends/wives to shoot various 380Auto/9mm/40S&W/45ACP pistols in peace and let them pick the pistol they feel most comfortable and be able to shoot fastest most accurate.

To our surprise, many of them shot 40S&W and 45ACP (Particularly 1911s) well and ended up choosing them. :eek: And I have noticed, vast majority of them end up shooting Glocks faster and more accurate than other pistols. When my state agency office female workers wanted to be armed because federal judge released a bunch of inmates from prisons due to "overcrowding" and crime rate shot up, most of them chose 45ACP as their caliber of choice (I took all of them to the range and had them shoot different caliber pistols) and rest chose 40S&W. Yup, none of them chose 9mm.

My sister is 5' 5" with smaller hands and after shooting various 9/40/45 pistols, she chose M&P40 as she felt most comfortable and she was very accurate with it to the point she shoots matches with it. My wife shot all of my 9mm/40S&W/45ACP pistols and comfortably shoots 40S&W/45ACP pistols as well as 9mm pistols. Her favorites? M&P45 and Glock 22.

Last year, 20s neighborhood couple showed up at the local shooting spot and boyfriend wanted to get his girlfriend (who never shot before) a carry pistol because her workplace got robbed at gunpoint along with other businesses. After she shot various 9mm/40S&W/45ACP pistols we had, she ended up shooting my Glock 23 with factory ammo the best. Her boyfriend and I were surprised as we both thought she would do well with a 9mm. After repeat shooting different pistols, she said, "I like this one the best". I taught both of them defensive point shooting (took over 4 hours that day) and she was producing fast tight groups at multiple targets at 7-10 yards using Glock 23 and factory ammo. After several hundred rounds, she never complained about the "snappy" felt recoil several days later when we did a follow up training session. (BTW, when some Glock owners who never replace their recoil spring assembly complain about snappy recoil, I hand them my spare new RSA I keep in my range bag and their complaint disappear afterwards ;) Same for 1911 shooters with noticeable reduction in muzzle climb :eek: I like Wilson Combat 18.5 lb spring for factory JHP loads)

So yes, I would say 40S&W is still very relevant, even for female shooters.
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Interesting.


Do they say why they like it more?


Do they say if they think the .40 cal has more/less recoil than 9mm?
 
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