Why is the '.44' Actually .429" bullet sized?

[BlindJustice]

So why today is are the cartrdges .44 Special and .44 Magnm
using bullets .429" diameter?

The recent .45 COlt vs .44 Special thread got me doing a bit of research

The .44 S&W American cartridge chambered in the S&W #3 Revolver and
used by the US army for a short time prior to 1873 and the adoption
of the 45 Colt SAA in 1873 was a true .44 cal cartridge. THe military
sales contract S&W made with the Russian Imperial Army SPecified an
internally lubricated cartridge if they were to buy the S&W #3. The
.44 S&W American had an externally lubricated bullet with a heel like
the .22 LR RF of today - must have been messier though with 19th
century lube because the bullets would pick up debreis and mess up
bores with contamination.

This led to the revolutionary invention of grooves to hold the lube and
they lengthened the case .2" as well as narrowing the bore to .429 and
the S&W #3 variant in the new cartridge the .44 RUssian was created.

SOme decades later S&W had created the .38 SPecial in conjunction with
the 1rst MOdel Hand Ejector+ in the late 1890s, The 2nd MOdel Hand
Ejector which would become the N-frame, - the cylinder length must have
had influence with the length of the 1rst MOdel Ejector being long enough
for .38 SPecial so it was made just a bit longer for the larger fraem. The
.44 Special is an extended .44 RUssian to approx. .38 Special length

So, it seems from this I would say the .44 SPecial wasn't designed
from the gound up for the new smokeless powder, but by making it so much
longer than the .44 Russian it made the .44 SPecial with room to grow and
over time, it did - the .44 Rem Magnum with only 1/8" longer in length ranter than the almost .2" + that the case length grew tween the
Russian and SPecial case lengths.

The first RImmed cartrdige for revolvers designed for smokeless
powder would come along in the early 20s, the 45 Auto RIm.

Opinions/Thoughts?

R-

 

[waidmann]

Likely because it and the .44 S&W American case have the same internal case diameter.
As I am sure you know the .38, .41 Colt and others have similar issues with regard to numbers.

 

[RidgwayCO]

As I understand it, the first ".44" was the S&W .44 American that used a heeled bullet of the same diameter as the case (similar to a .22 rimfire bullet). When the Russians decided they wanted S&W to make them a bunch of revolvers, they insisted that S&W put the bullet's lubrication grooves inside the case. Thus was born the .44 Russian cartridge, and the bullet had to be smaller in diameter to fit inside the case. Thus bullets of ".44 caliber" actually measure less than .44". The .45 Colt, since it came after the .44 Russian, was always designed to have the lubrication grooves inside the case, and thus was designated with the diameter of the bullet.

At least, that's the way it was explained to me...

 

[Bullet Bob]

Bingo

 

[RKRCPA]

Which is why a 41 Mag is .410". Nothing like a little experience to get you started down the right path.

 

[BlindJustice]

rdgeavCO you restated much of what I said except for the diameter
change because it had to match up with the I>D of the case

Waidman - the .44 Russian also got a larger diameter rim to .475
bigger the the S&W AMerican

The reason why Remington Peters felt it was safe to create the
.45 Auto Rim - the >45 AR has a thicker than normal rim so it headspaces
correctly equivalent to .45 ACP in the original M1917
RIm SIzes
.45 Auto RIm 0.0910"
.45 COlt 0.605"

so the .45 AR can't be chambered in .45 Colt

R-

 

[SaxonPig]

The 750 Honda was really 736 cc in displacement.

750 sounds better.

44 sounds better than 43.

The 38 measures .357". But 38 sounds better than 36.

 

[22-rimfire]

Naming a caliber/cartridge is as much about marketing as it is about it's true caliber.

 

[Onmilo]

'Cause .44 Magnum sounds MUCH cooler than .43 Magnum!

 

[Dave T]

I've always found it interesting that the 38 WCF is a .40 caliber and the 41 Colt is a .38 caliber. As stated above, cartridge names were more about marketing in the old days than accurate information.

Dave

 

[BlindJustice]

Of course it was marketing, much of it can be tied into the
transition from cap and ball 36 & 44 to cased ammunition - they had
to get buyers to trust that the cased ammo had the same or more
powder charge.

that and the .44 S&W American heeled to .44 Russian internal lubed
bringing the cal fown to .429 - S&W wanted to make the military sales a done
deal - so they sure weren't going to relabel it 43 otherwise to be a true
44 they may have been forced to enlarge the cartridge diameter which
may have meant enlarging the Cylinder and frame of the S&W No. 3 Revolver.

Then there's the 38-40 parent case the 44-40 but neither the 38
( which is a .40 cal ) nor the -40 is true to the bore or powder charge.

R-

 

[MIL-DOT]

(quote) "Cause .44 Magnum sounds MUCH cooler than .43 Magnum! "

Yep, brings to mind the classic movie line, "...But this one goes to ELEVEN"

 

[LightningMan]

BlindJustice, Lets not forget the .44 Colt was used by the U.S. Military 1871-1873 See Link--> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.44_Colt