Why moon clips?

[greenlion]

Years ago I had a Ruger single action .357 which came with an extra cylinder chambered for 9mm. The cylinder had the chambers cut so that the rounds head spaced on the case mouth without the need of moon clips, just like in a semi auto barrel. I know moon clips make loading quicker, but it would still be nice to know I could fire the gun even if I lost the moon clips. Why doesn't any modern revolver use this method in any of the auto-cartridge calibers? Do DA revolvers not have tight enough tolerances to make this work?

Just curious.

 

[belus]

In a single action you remove casings one at a time via a rod that enters the case.

It's hard for a double action ejector star to grip the rimless cases without a moon clip. If you have the cylinder cut for the auto cartridge you could still fire them without a clip, but you'd need to have a pencil handy to eject.

 

[PT1911]

supposedly charter is coming out with a new model that has, for lack of a better term, spring loaded retainers that work as integrated moons and retract when the ejection rod is pressed essentially working as an eject assist as well as an integrated retainer for rimless cartridges.

 

[Oyeboten]

If you lose your Moon Clips, you've lost your re-loads and or present load as well...


The moral-of-the-story, is, one does not loose these things, anymore than one would loose their Magazines for an Autoloader.


But, 'Yes'...Cylinder Chambers can be made for the erstwhile Rimless or semi-rimmed Cartridges to index via the edge of the Case Mouth.


Issues of ejection, reliability, variations of overall Case length, 'crimp' and, forthright re-loading, are then questions of import....where, with Moon Clips, they are solved.

 

[Jim Watson]

Why doesn't any modern revolver use this method in any of the auto-cartridge calibers?

Why do you think they don't?

My S&W M25-2's cylinder is properly cut to headspace .45ACP just like an automatic's chamber. You can pick the empties out with your fingernail with light loads, you might have to poke them out with a pencil for heavy loads or from a dirty gun.
Most current 625s are, too; although there have been complaints about deep chambers in some individual guns.

So will the 610 10mm revolver, but most people get so enthused about buying big and shooting small with clipped .40s that the fact gets lost .

 

[greenlion]

Interesting info. I didn't know they WERE cut to headspace on the case mouth. I assumed they were not, because I have never seen them used without moon clips. Don't know why the ejection problem didn't occur to me. It was obviously not an issue on the single action Ruger, but I can see how that would be a pain on a DA revolver.

I've been itching for a revolver in a caliber bigger than .357 lately. I don't really want any of the new super-magnums. Been thinking about .45 colt, or perhaps a .44 magnum (since it can chamber .44 specials as well). The S&W 10mm revolver in 6" is attractive, but the moon clip thing was kinda putting me off it. 10mm would be handy because I already have the reloading equipment for it. Would be great if Ruger made a 5-1/2" Blackhawk in 10mm.

 

[Jim Watson]

While it is possible to shoot loose ammunition, a few rounds will make you a clip believer.

If you find loading and unloading clips tedious, you can try the plastic Rimz clips. A friend thought they were too floppy for competition, but some like them and they are fine for casual shooting.
http://www.ezmoonclip.com/

Ruger built a few .38-40 - .40 S&W convertible Blackhawks and even fewer straight .40s commemorating something or another. A gunsmith could easily rechamber to 10mm. Since a single action will not handle clips, it would then be a dedicated 10mm, without the ability to shoot .40s headspaced on clips the way a 610 can.

 

[StrawHat]

The question has been answered at least as it concerns the S&W M25-2. Another option for revolvers chambered for the 45 ACP (S&W and Colt) is to use the 45 Auto Rim or 45 AR cartridge. Same dimensions as the ACP with the rim thick enough to mimic the dimension of the ACP plus the thickness of the clip.

I used them so I can tell at a glance what the load was. Now I have settled on two loads so it is not an issue.

 

[danbrew]

I'm a moonclip convert on a 625, 325, 610, and 327. Imho, the moonclip and the .45 were designed for one another. .40/10mm work equally as well. Moon clipping an 8 shot .357 is somewhat of a pain and the rounds don't slide into the cylinder as easily. While I do have a moonclip setup for .357, it's not technically needed since the cases have rims on them - as a result, I don't use moonclips too much on the 327.

If you moonclip, here's the best thing since sliced bread - http://www.mooncliptool.com/

 

[GP100man]

like danbrew hit on , the bigger the cyl. holes the better they work!!
i was thinking of MCing a GP & got to handle 1 but i spent more time with it than my speed loaders .

just too big of a permanent change for me to might like on a 357 revolver !!

love it on the 625s , even handled a 610 with .40 rounds sweet!!
i think cartridge length plays a big part also.

 

[Stainz]

If you like .45 ACPs, you have to try a 25/625. The moonclipped rounds dump as one - and reload as if on a tractor beam, especially with an eased ejector star. Another benefit - you can buy a bag of 100 gooey (oil) blued steel moonclips from Ranch Products for $35 delivered - less than what two 7 or 8 rd 1911 style mags cost. Load 'em up in five layers of twenty, spaced by hardboard, in a metal .223 ammo can, and you have 600 rounds ready to go... Zombie hordes be forewarned!

Whatever you do - don't expect the 8-slot 627-style .357M moonclips to load quickly - those spindly/spider-like rounds can be time-consuming to load when you are in a hurry. I'm guessing that may be why the Great One, JM, has an eight shot record (1.01 seconds) and chose the 625 for his six-reload-six shot record (2.99 seconds). Still, the 8-shooter reloads more quickly with moonclips than manually, one by one. They are thinner stock, so care must be excercised - especially in storage of 'clipped. I can see where my 25 oz disposable food container, which holds 14 loaded clips, might be difficult to carry on a duty belt. Again - the manufacturer, Ranch Products, has their 627-style 'clips for $50/50 or $75/100 blued metal delivered in gooey bags. Nice folks, too. The 625 and those 'clipped .45 ACPs spoil you. FMJ RN load quickly, but LSWCs are nearly as fast. Starline brass fits both clips perfectly - and the Brownell 'nutdrver-style' demooners work great - and are reasonable.

Hmmm - could .50 BMG links be considered 'linear moonclips'??

Stainz

 

[finfanatic]

I agree with Danbrew... get a moonclip tool. I bought the one Dillon sells out of their Blue Press magazine...from California Competition or something like that??

It makes loading and loading the moonclips EASY.

I have always wanted a Model 1917 with the lanyard ring and everything, but even old beat up ones were expensive. I found this new Classic Smith & Wesson 22-4 (M1917) on sale at Bass Pro Shops for $649, and bought it. I absolutely love it.



I got 100 moon clips from Ranch Products for $35 so I am loaded for bear...or anything else!

Jerry Miculek sure makes it look easy, but it ain't quite as easy as he makes it look.

 

[cane]

Both Ruger (Speed-Six), and S&W (547), made revolvers that allowed the use and ejection of 9mm ammo. The Rufer used a half moon spring around the ejector rod to snap into the groove in the 9mm case. The S&W had metal "fingers" that extended from the ejector rod as it was extended, catching the groove. Kinda hard to explain, but if you saw it you would understand. I've owned both of them and they work. But of course you can't use "moon clips" in either of them.

 

[Jim Watson]

The Rufer used a half moon spring around the ejector rod to snap into the groove in the 9mm case... I've owned both of them

Fascinating.
I have read about these but never seen one. Until now I did not think any had actually been sold. All the 9mm Speed Sixes I have seen used ordinary half- and full moon clips.

I wonder if that is why we have not yet seen the Charter auto caliber revolver. If it's piano wire extractor is too much like Ruger's, they don't have a valid patent.

 

[jmorris]

If you moonclip, here's the best thing since sliced bread - http://www.mooncliptool.com/

If you like that mooner you should check out this video.
http://s121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/?action=view&current=mooner.flv

Here is a still photo.


I prefer using 45 GAP brass now as they don't require tools to moon/demoon.

 

[Nicodemus38]

the main issue is that gun companies dont want to take the time and effort and extra tiem to train production floor employees to have the skills needed to correctly chamber the revolver cylinder so that the auto pistol cartridges are correctly seated when loaded.
second issue is that unless you go the way of charter arms and redesign the ejector star, you wont get extraction.
third issue is that length of auto pistol casings vary from lot to lot nad maker to maker. no company could rally make sure that every bodys cartrdige would fit into the chambe,r and still have the primer where it needs to be for the firing pin to hit it.

 

[bhp9mm]

i like moons clips wheelguns i have 7 guns that use them 2 625 and 5 9mm

 

[StrawHat]

the main issue is that gun companies dont want to take the time and effort and extra tiem to train production floor employees to have the skills needed to correctly chamber the revolver cylinder so that the auto pistol cartridges are correctly seated when loaded.

That is now done by machine so the machine needs to be programmed for the correct depth.

second issue is that unless you go the way of charter arms and redesign the ejector star, you wont get extraction.

Both S&W and Ruger had workable solutions that did not require moon clips. Or use moon clips.

third issue is that length of auto pistol casings vary from lot to lot nad maker to maker. no company could rally make sure that every bodys cartrdige would fit into the chambe,r and still have the primer where it needs to be for the firing pin to hit it.

Factory ammo is held to a standard and will work, or at least it has worked since 1917. If you reload, you will have to trim your brass the first time (just like always) and again when/if the brass strecthes.

 

[StrawHat]

I can see where my 25 oz disposable food container, which holds 14 loaded clips, might be difficult to carry on a duty belt

That is probably correct (and lends itself to a few donut comments).

Whne i carried a 4" N frame, I found that I could use my double speed loader pouch to carry four sets of moonclipped ammo. With the 6 in the revolver, I had 30 rounds available.

I stacked the ammo with the moonclips back to back so I could grab the easily.

 

[greenlion]

This is all making want a 4" model 610 really bad.

 

[easyg]

Years ago I had a Ruger single action .357 which came with an extra cylinder chambered for 9mm. The cylinder had the chambers cut so that the rounds head spaced on the case mouth without the need of moon clips, just like in a semi auto barrel. I know moon clips make loading quicker, but it would still be nice to know I could fire the gun even if I lost the moon clips. Why doesn't any modern revolver use this method in any of the auto-cartridge calibers? Do DA revolvers not have tight enough tolerances to make this work?

Actually, the Taurus 905 9mm revolver can shoot 9mm rounds with or without the moonclip.