Why No Pocket 9mm Guns In The $500 Or Less Range?

[Phydeaux642]

I'm curious as to why there are no real pocket 9mm guns in the $500 or less range. The Kahr PM9 seems to be the only true pocket 9mm out there for anything even close to a reasonable amount of money. Still, in my area they are roughly $700 or more depending on sights and finish. Why can't someone make a PM9-like gun for five bills or less? The construction of the Kahr doesn't seem to be anything special, so, what gives?

 

[RevolvingGarbage]

PF-9?

That maybe slightly larger than the kahr, but I say thats still a "pocket" gun.

 

[Steve C]

Why No Pocket 9mm Guns In The $500 Or Less Range?

I think the Kel-tec pf-9 and p11's fill the specs being 9mm, small pocket size, and under $300.

 

[Phydeaux642]

There's just something about the two Kel-tecs that make them not fit in my pocket. The Kahr looks smaller by a good amount and then you read the specs...

 

[Jeff82]

Good thing your pocket isn't the definition for pocket carry.

 

[Samgotit]

There's just something about the two Kel-tecs that make them not fit in my pocket.

Time to get rid of the Jordaches.

Have you tried one of the pocket holsters. They work. The DeSantis Nemesis does wonders for 15 bucks.

 

[Shadow 7D]

Because 9mm is a high pressure round requiring a lock mechanism and because it is faster, it also requires a larger and heavier frame if you want to hold on to it during recoil.

Finally if you know your ammo, you would realize that there are a HUGE number of 9MM pocket guns

Go look up 9mm curt also know by the American name of .380 ACP

 

[LightningMan]

The MicroTech Archangle is supposed to be around $475 & $575 w/Nightsites, but it's not available yet. LM

 

[Strahley]

How can you not pocket carry a PF9? Hell, I can pocket carry my Glock 27, and it's quite a bit bigger

 

[chicharrones]

Different pants for different folks. Pocket guns are like shoes. A dedicated pocket carrier needs different sized guns for different types of pants.

 

[conw]

The P11 just doesn't work with me at pocket carry. I am 31-32 waist, 6'1, 210-215lb. Dude, a double stack weighing a pound-ish loaded just can't be pleasant or ideal to pocket carry for anyone. If you can conceal that in your pocket you should be able to carry IWB somehow. Slacks, no freaking way.

 

[c919]

Go look up 9mm curt also know by the American name of .380 ACP

Kurz.... not curt. And I'd be willing to guess that Phydeaux knows the what a .380 is (and what it is not...ie as powerful as the cartridge he is referring to).

Phydeaux,

I'm with you man. Can someone really not make something similar to an R9 for under $500? I know Rorbaugh is a very small business and isn't going to lower prices by 50-60% any time soon, but why can't somebody else do something similar? I know I'd want one. Until then I'll be satisfied with my PPS and IWB.

 

[LawofThirds]

Shadow 7D, the OP asked about 9mm. 9mm generally refers to 9x19, not .380 acp. .380 doesn't hold a candle to a true 9mm. Generally the real holdup is that high power, small lightweight guns are a niche market. Look at the number of .38 J frames sold compared to the .357 ones. Most people do not want that much gun in that small of package and as a result the gun companies are more interested in developing "user friendly" guns.

Like Chicharrones said, pocket carry is dependent on gun and on pants. Some pants you'd be hard pressed to fit a baby browning in them and in others you can hide a full sized duty gun. I have witnessed a friend pocket carrying a Springfield EMP in a homemade pocket holster and I was quite impressed at how well it disappeared.

 

[atblis]

Or

Kurz.... not curt. And I'd be willing to guess that Phydeaux knows the what a .380 is (and what it is not...ie as powerful as the cartridge he is referring to).

Kurz is not the only other name for 380. 380 has many names in different languages. My guess would be he actually meant court (though you could make an argument for curt being correct enough).

 

[NinjaFeint]

Do what I did...Buy a used PM9 for 500ish (Black, Night sights). It's been a hundred percent reliable for me. All the pro's and someone else did the break in for me. Also, while not a pocket gun for me and neither is the PM9, the PF9 and P11 are good values. You could also pick up a Kahr CW9 for under $500. That is easily concealable though not pocketable.

 

[Mastiff]

The Taurus PT709 Slim works for me. I've seen it selling for $368.

 

[Grey Morel]

* KelTec PF9
* Taurus 709
* Kahr CW9
* KelTec P11
* Glock 26

I'm 2" shorter than you and about the same pant size, and I know I can pocket carry these guns with a good pocket holster. All of these guns also have good IWB holsters available for them.

Stay open to the 380 as well. There are a ton of tiny 380s out there now.

 

[MCgunner]

All my pants are Kel Tec friendly. I won't buy a pair that isn't.

Go look up 9mm curt also know by the American name of .380 ACP

I believe you mean Kurz or perhaps Corto. You seem to have combined the names. Currently, I'm agog of a new 9x18 makarov. Packs a little more punch than .380, but it's mostly the gun I'm agog of. It's a little Radom P64, PPK sized. The reliability is amazing and accuracy is astounding.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

I have to agree with the OP - like he says, but for the Kahr MK9 and Rohrbaugh, all the rest are really too big dimensionally to be good pocket guns for jeans and other smaller type pockets, and even then the Kahr is too big really. I guess the Taurus 709 and KT PF9 come the closest, but they're not small enough.

However, the answer to the question asked is, 'because it's darn hard to engineer such a beast that will have enough slide mass and/or spring resistance, to cycle reliable, and still be tiny, in the full powered 9x19mm' - R&D takes money, which means higher price. The OTHER part of the answer I think, is that some makers, like Kahr, *insist* upon making ANY design that will fire a 9x19mm, ALSO fire .40 S&W - this limits how small you can go, because a .40 is bigger and of course develops more bolt thrust.

 

[MedWheeler]

Since it was already mentioned more than once, I won't say it again.
Kel-Tec PF9 (d'oh!)

 

[gabrielvox]

I don't like the kel-tec, but I carry a taurus PT709 without any problems.

 

[Phydeaux642]

Good thing your pocket isn't the definition for pocket carry.

For me, my pocket defines what is a pocket carry gun. My 642 disappears in my pocket, so, my pocket seems to be pretty large (unless you compare it to cargo pants).

Time to get rid of the Jordaches.

Don't wear 'em. I wear Lardache.

I can fit a CZ RAMI in a Nemesis holster in my pocket. It's getting it out quick is the issue.

 

[Shadow 7D]

I have a Kel Tec P-40, Dr. Tad, I would rather a .40 frame firing 9mm than a lightweight frame firing .40, If anyone feels the need for a that much that small, they can come shoot my P-40 and see it they can get to work rapid fire, cause I cant, and after 2 mags, I'm done, rather shoot a mosin in a tank top.

It's damn unpleasant, I would rather have a larger gun I shoot than a micro cannon I can't.

 

[Chisel Head]

Good thing your pocket isn't the definition for pocket carry.

Especially, if his pockets fit these dimensions:



In fact, check out this Thugwear video. I know it's a little off-topic. But, it's funny:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yj0B51vs8RI&feature

 

[RevolvingGarbage]

I have a Kel Tec P-40, Dr. Tad, I would rather a .40 frame firing 9mm than a lightweight frame firing .40, If anyone feels the need for a that much that small, they can come shoot my P-40 and see it they can get to work rapid fire, cause I cant, and after 2 mags, I'm done, rather shoot a mosin in a tank top.

It's damn unpleasant, I would rather have a larger gun I shoot than a micro cannon I can't.

I felt the same way about the Kahr PM40. The power of the gun combined with with the light weight and aggressive grip texture made it just plain unpleasant to shoot.

I shot one alongside a Para-Ord compact LDA in .45ACP, and though that much bigger (if certainly heavier) of a gun, I shot that Para better than ive shot most full sized handguns (1911's included), and way better than I could shoot the Kahr.