I agree with everything in this post!
Why not 22TCM?
- Thread starter Oldschool shooter
- Start date
tark
Member
Never heard of it, don't know what TCM stands for and I am quite sure I can live out the rest of my life without one.
But I'm just a cranky old buzzard that thinks guns should be made out of only two things : Carbon steel and wood. Stainless steel is acceptable because of practicality for certain situations.
But I'm just a cranky old buzzard that thinks guns should be made out of only two things : Carbon steel and wood. Stainless steel is acceptable because of practicality for certain situations.
Howland937
Member
On my TV it's Turner Classic Movies
On here it could be Tark's a Cranky Man
But it stands for Tuason Craig Micromagnum
jmorris
Member
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2005
- Messages
- 24,170
Now, I know your mother taught you better than that. How do you know you won't like if if you haven't even tried it yet?
.22 TCM - Wikipedia
I had .22 uppers already though for play and never really found a niche for the .22 Hornet practical use wise. Too many things to play with too little time.
In my experience, it is a cartridge with great potential and an uncertain future due to unfortunate lack of marketing acumen.
Mr Tuason, if you care about the future of this wonderful cartridge, partner with other manufacturers or Palmetto State to get it out there in some firearms that will demonstrate its abilities. It would make a wonderful pistol caliber carbine, an excellent medium range varmint round in an accurate bolt action rifle, and would shine in a long-slide 1911 format set up for 38 super/22TCM. I certainly would like to see it succeed.
In my opinion, the 9r variant opened a few doors but created confusion and compromise. There may be a future for it too, but it should not hobble the entire program.
Mr Tuason, if you care about the future of this wonderful cartridge, partner with other manufacturers or Palmetto State to get it out there in some firearms that will demonstrate its abilities. It would make a wonderful pistol caliber carbine, an excellent medium range varmint round in an accurate bolt action rifle, and would shine in a long-slide 1911 format set up for 38 super/22TCM. I certainly would like to see it succeed.
In my opinion, the 9r variant opened a few doors but created confusion and compromise. There may be a future for it too, but it should not hobble the entire program.
Last edited:
tark
Member
I like that! "Tark TCM!
I've never tried Wasabi either but I know I wouldn't like it.Now, I know your mother taught you better than that. How do you know you won't like if if you haven't even tried it yet?
That seems to make sense to me. I mean, a varmint caliber in a pistol? It appears to be short enough to feed through a 1911 but I'm wondering what is the practical use?
And the whole things looks very much like a 7.62X25 Tokarev round necked down to .22 caliber. Are we sure that isn't where this thing really originated?
Howland937
Member
Pretty sure it's a hacked down.223. Not sure about shoulder angle and such but I think the 5.7x28 took a lot of the wind out of TCM's sails.
According to writings early on, Fred Craig used .223 cases to form the brass. I even read one source where he said it could be loaded with W296 but he would not give load data. It was treated as a wildcat in the beginning but has gained a slight acceptance after RIA endorsed it and began selling pistols and ammo. From what I see, the rifles are few and far between. The pistols are somewhat available, and so is the ammo. I used to be able to buy the bullets for reloading but that dried up before Covid. Brass is still available from Armscor last I checked, but I just buy the ammo if I need more brass.
What use is it? Whatever you want it to be! For me, shooting a pistol round that is as loud as an AR, with a fireball as big as a .44mag, but having almost zero recoil, is a hoot! I really don’t care that it’s not “practical.” I have never taken it to the range without drawing a crowd of shooters wanting to know what it is and where to get one… and it is a great conversation starter.
I suppose it’s not much different than shooters taking other calibers and guns to the range because they enjoy the experience of using the interesting weapons and reloading for them as needed.
What use is it? Whatever you want it to be! For me, shooting a pistol round that is as loud as an AR, with a fireball as big as a .44mag, but having almost zero recoil, is a hoot! I really don’t care that it’s not “practical.” I have never taken it to the range without drawing a crowd of shooters wanting to know what it is and where to get one… and it is a great conversation starter.
I suppose it’s not much different than shooters taking other calibers and guns to the range because they enjoy the experience of using the interesting weapons and reloading for them as needed.
He spoke positively about the round even though his pistol was not 100% reliable. Probably had one of the earlier style extractors. The newer ones seem to just run and run .22TCM and 9mm alike.
I'm skeptical that the .22TCM has much utility for defense, but I am equally skeptical about the 5.7x28mm.
Given that, I have fired a couple of magazines through a wide body RIA gun. First, function was 100% and it cycled smoothly. Second, I was shooting offhand at an 18x22 inch steel target at a measured 200 meters. After seeing where the first shot hit in the dirt, I made a correction and then hit the steel on each of the remaining shots. Holdover was much less than when shooting a 9mm at the same target . . . the .22TCM has a much flatter trajectory, as expected, but the combination of the round and that gun was very accurate. It was really fun to shoot. I was positively impressed and if I had the "disposable" income needed, I'd probably get the same gun and a bunch of factory Armscor ammo.
Given that, I have fired a couple of magazines through a wide body RIA gun. First, function was 100% and it cycled smoothly. Second, I was shooting offhand at an 18x22 inch steel target at a measured 200 meters. After seeing where the first shot hit in the dirt, I made a correction and then hit the steel on each of the remaining shots. Holdover was much less than when shooting a 9mm at the same target . . . the .22TCM has a much flatter trajectory, as expected, but the combination of the round and that gun was very accurate. It was really fun to shoot. I was positively impressed and if I had the "disposable" income needed, I'd probably get the same gun and a bunch of factory Armscor ammo.
Crosshair
Member
Just use a 22 rimfire at that point.
riverats
Member
FWIW, in response to this common 22 TCM theme, I posted the following on another forum a few weeks back:
Hopefully, that proprietary status of 22 TCM ammo will be changing. Last year, on a 22 TCM Facebook page & in response to constant carping about the lack of (ammo) availability & variety, 22 TCM designer Fred Craig commented that he had plans to pursue SAAMI acceptance for the round. In all likelihood, acceptance would not only open the door to mainstream ammunition production, but perhaps additional firearm manufacturers, too.
In the meantime, ammo & for those who reload, TCM brass & bullets are available online. Though Armscor (40gr.) bullets aren't as common as they once were, there are 22 Hornet options available ... though I have no small number of the factory 40gr JHP bullets, Hornady's 35gr. V-Max is my go-to projectile.
Last edited:
riverats
Member
Regarding brass &/or factory ammo, Advance Tactical:
https://advancedtactical.com/armscorprecision-22tcm-unprimed-nickel-cases-200rnd-bag/
https://advancedtactical.com/armscorusa-22tcm-40gr-jhp-nickel-casing-50rnd-box/
https://advancedtactical.com/armsco...nickel-plated-casing---100rnd/box-value-pack/
If you have a host receiver, here is something to ponder: https://advancedtactical.com/22tcm-conversion-kit-for-1911-a1/
And should you get around to reloading 22 TCM, one of these: https://sheridanengineering.com/product/22-tcm-ammunition-gauge/
Though no long-slide, I recently added a 38 Super barrel to an RIA 1911A1-FS Tact MM (9mm/22tcm), rendering it one the most reached-for pistols in the safe ... while some RIA 1911 breech faces allow for conventional 38 Super brass/rounds, I have to use Super Comp brass because of the Tact MM's narrower breech.
That looks interesting! Any pics of the barrel & breechface (if not too much trouble)?
riverats
Member
Thank you for being an enabler, appreciate your time and effort spent on this information.
That was fast. Thanks.
Any fitting of the barrel required?
My gun came in and I have not made it home from work before dark yet to shoot it but so far I am impressed with it. I actually like the huge grip. I have XXL hands and this is my only gun that really fills my hand and has real estate left for my support hand. It still fits in the holster for my government size 1911 in .45. The trigger is on the stuff side but very clean.Slide is smooth with no noticeable play. My only real complaint is the narrow thumb safety kind of digs into my knuckle and that is easily replaced.
I did order the 9mm barrel. It hasn't made it yet and I will also have to get a recoil spring. Hoping to get out on the range soon and check out the .22tcm though, 9mm is not a priority right now.
I did order the 9mm barrel. It hasn't made it yet and I will also have to get a recoil spring. Hoping to get out on the range soon and check out the .22tcm though, 9mm is not a priority right now.
Shoot it after dark and the big fireball will be epic!
doubleh
Member
My only interest in it is as a rifle cartridge and it is very close to a 22 hornet in ballistics. Muzzle blast is not nearly as loud as 223. I found quite a bit of reloading data for it on the net and have it book marked on my desktop computer. W296 is one of the most favored powders.
