Why not a Ruger LCP / Kel-Tec P-3AT type pistol in 9x18 Makarov?

[Ben86]

It is FMJ for me all the time.

I know you probably hear this a lot but, why not take advantage of advances in modern bullet tech? Hollowpoints= greater stopping power and less chance of overpenetration. What's so bad about that?

 

[Ben86]

There is no such thing as STOPPING POWER in any caliber handgun.

That's a bit of an overstatement. Though the stopping power associated with handguns is more psychological rather than physiological.

They use fmj for several reasons, the least of which is stopping power. Even though it obviously does work ok, why not use something even better?

 

[metalman8600]

It would be great if they made a LCP/TCP type pistol that had a thicker barrel... that could be easily changed to 9x18 and 9x17. Just for ammo versatility... disregarding the power of the round and considering the availability of the round. They do make .380 Makarov PM barrels, but it requires a press and is not as easy to change a barrel as in a LCP.

 

[BMF500]

There is no such thing as STOPPING POWER in any caliber handgun. .

I've got a few Big Boys in the safe that disagree with that.

Just for the record I find FMJ to be very effective, or any projectile that hits the intented target for that matter.

 

[Snowdog]

A coworker purchased a IJ-70 in .380acp a week after I purchased the same in 9x18. Though we never chronographed any of the loads we used, I couldn't tell a single bit of difference in recoil between his .380acp and my 9x18 (using primarily Norinco 95gr FMJ that was plentiful at the time). If there was a difference in power, I would think it was ever so slight. The 9x18 is much closer to a .380acp than 9x18 in bullet weight, velocity and energy (virtually identical in most cases). I concur that many of these pistols currently chambered in .380acp could easily handle the 9x18, which currently is cheaper and easier to find.

I personally wouldn't mind a Sig P238 in 9x18 for popping cans and such. I would even consider such a purchase to replace my P32 I currently use for pocket carry.

The professional killers of the world....."any military armed force" use NATO 9 mm FMJ. Now what so bad about that as well? You have got to admit they most likely are having good success with it to keep using it.

Does this ring a bell?

"The Contracting Parties agree to abstain from the use of bullets which expand or flatten easily in the human body, such as bullets with a hard envelope which does not entirely cover the core, or is pierced with incisions"

This could be a good place to look as to why we haven't switched to JHP/JSP for general military applications.

 

[BMF500]

They can disagree all they want to. If you do some simple research you will find that 7 mm or 30 caliber is the most used caliber in warfare and the has filled the most graves on both side. The 1911 were dogs in 1912 and now bigger dogs in 2010. The most use I ever got out of one was getting wet when I tossed it in a rice patty in Cambodia. I know, Johnson lied too don't blame me!

Handguns and long guns.....apples and oranges man....

 

[benzy2]

I would like to see an all steel LCP in 9mm. I think if you went steel all around, with just a bit of thickening is some spots, you could get a pistol that handles 9mm. Not sure if the shooter could but that is another story.

 

[BMF500]

Now here's something that would be hard to hold on to.

Have ya'll seen this little beast?


http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=6451590#post6451590

 

[GLOOB]

I don't think stopping power is a very big deal for the modern military. The US military, in particular. They downgraded the power of the service rifle at least twice, in the last century. They do seem to be concerned with FIREpower, though.

I read somewhere that there's an average of 250,000 shots fired for each casualty in modern warfare. That's about 3 tons of ammunition.

 

[CajunBass]

Because if they made one in 9x18, it wouldn't be long before you or someone like you would be back here wanting one in 9x19. Then a 40, then a 45.

You gotta draw a line somewhere.

 

[Ben86]

I don't think stopping power is a very big deal for the modern military. The US military, in particular. They downgraded the power of the service rifle at least twice, in the last century. They do seem to be concerned with FIREpower, though.

I read somewhere that there's an average of 250,000 shots fired for each casualty in modern warfare. That's about 3 tons of ammunition.

The infantry tactics have largely changed from a few well placed, powerful shots (save the sniper) to a large volume of fire (lots of suppressive fire) from a medium powered caliber like 5.56.

I second that statistic about shots fired vs enemies killed, I've read it several times. It just goes to show you how much suppressive fire is used in modern warfare. It's also hard to get a clean kill, and verify it for that matter, under combat conditions.

 

[harmon rabb]

Do you know why the Military doesn't use Buffalo Bore or Corbon over pressured ammunition. Because they are smarter than that slick marketing plan that separates fools from their money.

First, the military has to keep costs down. They need to buy cheap ammunition, as they expend a ton of it as suppressing fire. Second, the 9mm used by the military pretty much is +p. Third, due to the Hague convention (which we apparently didn't even sign), the military will not use hollow points.

Why is it that police forces, and the FBI, who do not follow Hague (and don't typically lay down suppressing fire), absolutely DO use +p and +p+ hollow point cartridges from manufacturers such as Corbon? Is it that the military is that much more intelligent than the FBI?

 

[harmon rabb]

I'm surprised a self professed glock lover such as yourself claims that FMJ has fewer failures to feed than JHP. In a properly designed gun, such as a glock , this is just not true.

I've tried to fool my G27. Given it a mixed mag of fmj + 3 different brands of jhp's. It doesn't care. Eats and ejects them all.