Kel Tec PF-9? Or should I look elsewhere?

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Northslope Nimrod

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I'm looking for a pocket gun.

I already have a BHP and a Makarov.

I need a pocket gun because attire sometimes demands it. (atleast it is the option I am going toward)

1. How is the reliability of the Kel Tec PF 9? The P-11? The P-3AT?
Can I shoot 300 rounds without a failure?

2. Can you suggest any other pocket pistols? I was hoping to stay with 9mm but I'll probably have to be flexible. (Not a Kahr...I like them but not for the $)(Not a Rhorbaugh....way too much $$)
 
I got my dad an AMT Backup 380 for christmas, it was taking multiple strikes to fire, fixed it easily, but it was irritating. feed and extraction was 100% though, accuracy was good, the sights consisted of a groove down the length of the slide.

I've fired a couple of kel-tecs, one in 9mm and one in .40. Neither fed well, but all had positive extraction. polishing the feed ramp is trivial, but a pain in the ass. they'd now and then stovepipe, but it was probably just me getting lazy with my wrists.

that said, I'd still go for an AMT, I like the all steel construction, and after ten minutes of work it's very reliable, and may be very reliable without the work. the one I got was well used. if weight is a big deal, I'd go kel-tec.

you could also pick up an old ppk or p-64 which is a polish pistol in 9x18, has a horribly stiff double action to it when you get it, and a beautiful short and crisp single action. weighs slightly more than an AMT backup loaded.

There's also revolvers to consider, you can get an excellent price on a taurus 38 or 44 special, a little fatter and harder to conceal I think, but just as good as anything else.
 
First of all, I would like to see any "pocket" pistol that will shoot 300 rounds without failure, without cleaning. I clean my P3AT after every 75 rounds and I have never had 1 single failure.
 
From my research on the PF-9, there are a few issues that still need to be worked out. Head over to Ktog or KTrange for details. I would pass until the next gen comes out.

In the mean time you might want to try out the Taurus MilPros. I have one in 45 and it is a great gun. Borderline "too big for a pocketet", but it does fit into mine. The 9mm or 380 versions are great as well and a bit smaller too.

Oh yeah, and don't rule out a revolver too.
 
First of all, I would like to see any "pocket" pistol that will shoot 300 rounds without failure
Click to expand...

Okay, here ya go. Here's one that's fired over 10K without any kind of failure. I haven't done the dirty test, but I don't think this gun will fail if left dirty. My bet would be at least 1K, maybe more. I always clean my guns after firing, though. I've put a couple hundred rounds a session on it bunches of times.

attachment.php
 
At the gun show this weekend, the PF-9 was going for $299, and the Kahr CW9 was going for $369.00. For that difference, I'd definitely go for the CW9. Of course, I'm a biased CW9 owner. At the $220 price point, I do like the P11 with its higher capacity. I might have to give one of those a shot sometime soon.
 
My Taurus is an titanium/alloy snubbie, model 85 ti. It weighs about 13 ounces and is pretty easy to carry in the pocket if you are wearing pants with a medium to heavy fabric and large pockets. It has never failed to fire when I pulled the trigger. I realize you said "pistol" and may have meant to exclude revolvers. I also have a Kel-tech P32, but I prefer the snubbie.
 
Two complaints about the P11, first is the trigger and second, bigger issue for me is they are not drop safe -- can fire if dropped from ~4' or higher. Use the search, its been discussed.

--wally.
 
The PF-9s are kinda rough right now....not many people are getting good guns right out of the box. Alot of them are going back. If you want something stone-cold reliable right out of the box I would pass for now........but if you dont mind sending it back a few times go for it.

But honestly I dont think the PF-9 is a pocket gun. Its considerably larger then the P3AT. I have great luck with my P3AT and thats what I would recommend.

The NAA Guardians are nice pieces....just as small as the KetlTec....just heavier because they are all metal guns. Check them out.
 
My own Carry

2nd generation Keltecs in 380 work perfect out of the box. The feed ramp is already polished. +lifetime warranty cant be beat This is my choice of carry due to the light weigtness of the piece plus the better stopping power of .380 vs some 38 Spc ,.32 .25, .22. if you go this route a good round is the Remigton golden saber 102g. This round is pretty hot and expands reliably to .57 inch penetrating 10.5 inches of gel. Do your home work many so called defense round is .380 do not expand at all so be wise. My next choice that has been retired due to not being as light as the kel tec is a taurus mod 85 ultralight. The Reliability of this revolver is incredible I've abused this revolver but only 5 rounds to me vs 8 on the Keltec are marginal plus the burden of carrying a fat speed loader is not fun 4 me. The next option i carry is a taurus millennium pt145. What a gun for the $$ you pay very reliable compact and 11 rounds of .45. My advice stay away from the Pf9 till all the bugs get worked out of the new gun.:)
 
For a true pocket gun, the P32/P3AT is very hard to beat, I have a modified KD wallet holster that I can carry mine with no fear of being made even in summer shorts & T-shirts. I been carring a Kel Tec P11 when my activities permit, that has been 100% reliable & have a Taurus PT145SS on order.
 
Yep, the P-3AT is a true pocket gun.

Some people try to say the Taurus PT's are pocket guns. A picture is worth a thousand words.

My P-3AT and the PT111 I used to own.
milpro_p3_2.jpg

-
milpro_p3.jpg
 
I agree Kokapelli. I also have a PT and the P3AT and there is a huge size difference. I love my Keltec and carry it enough to keep it but since I got the PT140 I find the Keltec sitting in the safe more and more. With my IWB holster for the .40, you can't even notice it there in shorts and t-shirt.
The P3AT and P32 are true pocket guns. Hell, I think if they made a belt buckle for one, someone could carry it there and people would think it was a nice novelty belt buckle. :)
 
My personal opinions...

The Kel-Tec P-3AT is a great "pocket" gun - the PF9 is a bit too big.

The only true "pocket gun" in 9 mm is the Rohrbaugh.

True pocket guns (Seecamps, NAA Guardians, Kel-Tecs, Rohrbaughs, etc. are going to have more reliability issues due to the fact that they are pushing the limit in the combination of power, size, and weight than are bigger guns. Even so, most of them once broken in, will shoot reliably all the rounds necessary in a typical self-defense situation.

I settled on the 2G P-3AT and happily believe I made the right choice.
 
The CW9 is also too big. I handled one yesterday.

So, I'm now looking at these possibilities:

1. NAA Gaurdian .380 ($390)...I think.
2. P11 Kel Tec 9mm ($260)..I think
3. S&W 642 Airlite .38 +P ($350)
4. Colt Mark IV .380 ($500)

I'm really hoping to get an auto...but may have to resort to the revolver.
 
But honestly I dont think the PF-9 is a pocket gun. Its considerably larger then the P3AT. I have great luck with my P3AT and thats what I would recommend.
Click to expand...

Well, I'm sitting here with a P11 well concealed in my front pocket. It just depends on the size of the pocket, but there's plenty of wardrobe options out there that allow me to carry a service caliber. I don't have warm, fuzzy feelings about .380, but have one. I don't like to carry it, rather carry a 9mm +P. But, the P3AT will fit ANY dress option and, as such, is a great gun to have in the battery for those times when the bigger gun just can't fit the dress code. I find that very seldom, though, in my life. But, then, I'm a jeans and T shirt kinda guy. I only own one suit and I had to buy that 25 years ago when I got married. :D White trash like me can find pants with pockets big enough for a P11. Were I a mover and shaker white collar type, I might be more into the P3AT. I shop at Walmart.:D

I haven't been one of the "jump all over it" PF9 types. I haven't been sitting on the edge of my seat waiting for it to come out, partly because I have a very good P11, well proven, that's not that much bigger and holds more rounds and which I shoot quite well, but also because I don't ever buy the first year model of ANYthing until I find out whether it's going to work well. The PF9 seems to be having some early model problems. I don't really want one anyway, but this seals the deal. In a few years, the problems will be worked out, I'm sure. I'll stick with my P11, though. It's worked well for 11 years now.
 
I have a P3AT and was really looking forward to picking one of these PF9s up, but after waiting for months and then finding that the first ones offered for sale had a number of problems, I gave up the wait and brought home a Glock 26 instead. It's a good bit fatter on the belt, but it works well and carries a deeper magazine. I'd still like a slimmer carry gun, but I'll wait awhile till I'm sure the PF9 design is de-bugged before I'd think of a trade-in.
 
Gun Tests had some real problems with a Guardian, didn't like it at all. I tried one sometime back, the force it took to pull the trigger was unbelievable. I've mastered the trigger on a Kel-Tec P-40, but, But I don't think I could on the Guardian.
 
The CW9 is also too big. I handled one yesterday.

So, I'm now looking at these possibilities:

1. NAA Gaurdian .380 ($390)...I think.
2. P11 Kel Tec 9mm ($260)..I think
3. S&W 642 Airlite .38 +P ($350)
4. Colt Mark IV .380 ($500)

I'm really hoping to get an auto...but may have to resort to the revolver.
Click to expand...

If the CW9 is too big I think you are left with few choices. The NAA Gardian or Kel-Tec P3AT (both .380) are clearly smaller, but the NAA is pretty heavy being all steel. The Colt Mark IV .380 is only marginally smaller than the CW9 and a good bet heavier in addition to being only a .380. The Kahr PM9 is the smallest 9mm other than the much more expensive Rohrbaugh 9mm. As far as I know these are it that is smaller than the CW9 (PF-9 is about as the same size as the CW9, I was expecting it to be closer to the PM9)

The 2" J-frame revolver is the about the same OAL as the CW9 but is thicker in the cylinder by a good bit than is the slide of the CW9, the CW9 grip extends down a bit more than the J-frame round butt, but mostly because of the magazine baseplate (I think you can get a flat baseplate from Kahr whcih will save about 1/4") and you'll only getting 5 shots vs 7+1. The P11 is basically the same OAL as the CW9 but with a thicker grip and a worse trigger than the PF-9, also its not "drop safe" IMHO an absolute requirement for pocket carry.

My carry is approximately 60% PM40 or P40 (I go a little larger for that extra round if I won't have to sit too much), 25% SC360 (Scandium .357 J-Frame) 10% P3AT, and 5% .45ACP Kimber Ultra Carry.

--wally.
 
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