why not belted magnums???

[nyresq]

I have seen on this forum and some others that belted magnums are no good.

I have a 7mm Rem Mag that I love and shoot quite often and see no big deal with belted cases.

Anyone want to give us a history lesson on belted cases, the reason for the belt, and why the new powerhouse calibers like the lazzeroni magnums don't use belted cases?

so why or why not use belted cases in magnum calibers?

 

[Roudy]

Magnum Belts

The belt on a "magnum" cartridge is there to headspace the cartridge in the chamber....that is to properly and consistently position the cartridge in relation to the bolt face so that it will fire. Some cartridges headspace from the rim (rimmed or 'flanged' cases) some on the shoulder of the cartridge, and some pistol cartridges on the front of the case (ie: .45 ACP).

My understanding of the belt is that in the early part of the last century a British manufacturer (Holland and Holland) was developing a new powerful round for big game when most of their cartridges were of the "flanged" (British for rimmed) design. Don't know why they settled on the belt instead of the standard at the time, perhaps it offers more strength at the base of the cartridge.

 

[JJohnston015]

H & H had to add the belt to its .300 Magnum because its shoulder angle is too gentle for reliable headspacing. Belts are unnecessary with the sharp shoulders we know today. They don't offer any strength advantage. For a long time, manufacturers used the H & H case head pattern because it's cheaper to use an existing parent case for a new cartridge, and because the shooting public just expected "Magnums" to have a belt.

 

[Roudy]

Why a belt instead of the rim?

Why didn't they just use a rimmed case instead of creating the belt? Perhaps they were looking to the belt as a marketing ploy.

 

[Jim Watson]

The belted cartridge was developed by H&H for positive headspace control of cartridges with little or no shoulder for use in bolt action rifles where it is difficult to get a rimmed cartridge to feed from the magazine. The first was the obscure .400-.375 but the .375 H&H Belted Magnum and the .30 Super (.300 H&H Magnum) are much better known and still in production.

The H&H belted magnum case was used for many years as a basis for other cartridges and calibers. Because it is larger than the Mauser standard diameter case and because the belt LOOKS strong and got identified in public perception with power and ruggedness.

Handloaders soon learned that brass life would be longer if they ignored the belt and adjusted sizing dies so that headspace was controlled off the case shoulder like an unbelted round. There are some opportunities for trouble here but not in a well made rifle.

The present drive to unbelted magnums came about when the makers were looking for an even bigger basic cartridge to build on and settled on the .404 Jeffrey, which is not belted but is bigger than an H&H. Then they started cutting them off and citing bench rest practice of minimizing the length of the powder column. Which probably doesn't matter much in a hunting or even target rifle.

Just remember, rifles are durable goods and one main way for the makers to sell new ones is for their advertising agencies and tame magazine writers to convince you that your old one is inferior.

 

[Ol` Joe]

There`s nothing wrong with the belt. The belt in simply a way to headspace a case that didn`t have enough "shoulder" due to the large bullet diameter to case body ratio. This works quite well, and is also easier to make feed reliably then rimmed cases I believe. The cartridge designers hopped on the belt as a marker of a high power cartridge and kept it when reduceing the neck to make smaller caliber "magnums.
The problems I`ve heard of with them relate to decreased mag capacity, and the fact the manufactures seem to chamber them with a long bolt to shoulder lenght (headspace on a std bottle neck cartridge). As I understand it every manufacture has his own idea of how deep they want the chamber cut, think about it, a reamer built to max lenght can be sharpened and reused more then one made to min spec`s. The long chamber means nothing to the guy that buys ammo and doesn`t reload the case. The reloader however risks oversizeing the shoulder area, and with the large amount of resulting case stretch the cases have very short life. 3-4 loadings max in most cases.
The new "fat mags" have their own problems with feeding I`m told.

 

[jerkface11]

They used a belt instead of a rim because rims have more problems feeding out of a magazine. As for why cartridges with a decent shoulder on them still have belts is anyones guess.

 

[Onmilo]

All of the above and the belt allows for more positive extraction from a side by side or over/under double rifle than the conventional rimless case.

The short magnums with the sharp shoulders and short cases provide consistent headspace, reduce case sticking, and improve extraction to the point where they are considered to have now made belted magnum cases obsolete.
Now if they can overcome the excessive throat erosion with sharp shoulder case designs I might be inclined to believe that.

 

[BigG]

375 H&H is all the reason I need for a belt.

Why not? I love em. The 375 Super Express Nitro Magnum - if I recall H&H's original name. Nothing gets a fellow shooter's attention like pulling a couple of those big honkers out of your pocket at the range while he is shooting his 30/06 or similar. Their eyes get as big as saucers and you can see the covetousness set in.

 

[Tony Williams]

Why not? I love em. The 375 Super Express Nitro Magnum - if I recall H&H's original name.

The actual full name was .375 Holland & Holland Belted Rimless Magnum Nitro Express. They went in for snappy titles, did H&H...

They also produced rimmed versions of the .375 and .300 rounds specifically for double rifles.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and discussion forum

 

[BigG]

The actual full name was .375 Holland & Holland Belted Rimless Magnum Nitro Express. They went in for snappy titles, did H&H...

They also produced rimmed versions of the .375 and .300 rounds specifically for double rifles.

Thanks for the correction, Tony. I actually had belted rimless in my designation and took it out before I posted. I thought "nah" that's just too many adjectives, but, you never can beat the British for ostentation.