Why should we support the US military?

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SilverBomber

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If our goal is to be able to freely own any firearm, why should we support a military effort in another country?

Since we should be able to defend our own land, and sustain ourselves without help from others, should we really desire to have a military controlled the government?

Maybe we need one to stop the threat of nuclear weapons being shot at us from abroad. But one might answer that if someone really wants to fire a nuke at us, they'll eventually do it no matter who tries to stop them.

What do you think? I'm not trying to belittle anyone who has served in the military, they are certainly brave, but should we support them?
 
WHAT???

Of course we should!!! Do you have any idea what would happen if for even 30 minutes our military put their guns down? You think that your 100 small arms and 30,000 rounds of ammo are going to save you? THINK AGAIN! This country would fall to pieces before you even know where the enemy is. I'm guessing you've never been in the military, but if you had even the tiniest amount of understanding of what it takes to defend a border or even one post then you would see how much you need the US armed forces. Enough said.
 
You're right that I have never been to a military base. Maybe what I'm trying to get at is why do we need a federally controlled military to protect us.

In the border example, why can't each state defend their own border with their own citizens? If the Texas border is too large, then couldn't citizens from other states be hired to defend it? Why must we leave this job to the fed?

I'm not arguing for either way, I'm just interested in the possibilities.
 
If the Texas border is too large, then couldn't citizens from other states be hired to defend it?
Texas tried it, and couldn't afford it. Thus ended the grand experiment known as the Republic of Texas. Texas was (by some accounts) bankrupt and beggin' to join the Union when they were granted statehood. They simply could NOT secure the borders and fend off the predation from native tribes on the budget they had.

It's an economy of scale thing, and a compatibility of arms thing, and so forth. If there's one thing that a centralized government does well, it's provide for the COMMON defense.
 
Think of it this way.

I am going to punch you in the nose. It will hurt. You are not allowed to defend yourself in any way, and because I know that you cannot defend yourself, I am going to punch you very hard, and quite possibly repeatedly.

Also, I am going to do it whenever the mood suits me. Why? Because you won't defend yourself.
 
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Maybe what I'm trying to get at is why do we need a federally controlled military to protect us.

Fifty state controlled National Guard units would be unable to defend against any type of significant attack by an opposing force. Differences in technologies, equipment, skills, leadership, communications, and egos would make a large scale national defense impossible.

Also, such state controlled forces would be unable to project any military power outside the US, thus forcing the US into a position of strict political and military isolationism. History has shown that US isolationism has been a terrible mistake which contributed directly to two world wars. Do you believe the US would be better off today if we had stuck with an isolationist policy and allowed the Nazi's and Japanese to control all of Europe and Asia? Or the Soviet led communists to get control of Europe and Asia?

No doubt mistakes have been made (Vietnam and probably Iraq), but for the US to adopt a new policy of global isolationism would be a far greater mistake.
 
The Founding Fathers views on standing armies aside I find the pretense of the OP's question absurd. The Civil War should show you precisely why we need a Federal Military to reign supreme as opposed to a collective of state militias under state control. The Founding Fathers had the right idea at the time but the times have changed. We no longer live in a world where wars are fought muzzle to muzzle making militias feasable to defeat an invading foe. Today wars are fought in the sky by multibillion dollar jet fighter programs which would be fiscally impossible to maintain at the militia level. Militia still has its place but to oppose even a moderately powerful enemy a strong centraly controlled and financed military is needed.
 
I understand the problem with Texas. I see that you live there, does the military do a better job?

This is obviously simplified, but suppose Texas has 1 mile of border land with Mexico. A 1 mile fence is built. 3 trained snipers are hired, and anyone trying to climb the fence is immediately shot dead, no questions.

Not a very complicated scenario, but it could be a basic idea behind a better way to control things. Not saying that it would work though.
 
3 trained snipers are hired, and anyone trying to climb the fence is immediately shot dead, no questions.
It's not that simple (and few things in life are). You really need at least nine snipers, so that they can each work an eight-hour shift. Then you need someone to drive them to their post and pick 'em up, or you have to buy extra vehicles to be parked at the post all the time. Then you have to hire somebody to buy their ammo and food and clothing and anything else they need for their mission, and a place to go to have it repaired when it breaks. Then you need to arrange for extra snipers to cover the nine that you have when they get sick or want a day off. Chances are, you'll need to build them a place to sleep, since they're no likely to live near where you ned 'em to lie in wait. And so on...

The simple logistics of outfitting your theoretical three snipers is enormous; figure at least a 5:1 ratio of support staff to trigger-pullers and probably more like 10:1. This ain't cheap, and no one state has the coffers to deal with it.

But all this presupposes that force projection around the world isn't even on the radar scope, which of course it is.
 
Absolutely! We have a history of taking the fight to our enemy. It's more than preventing a nuclear war...it's also about preventing the release of a biological agent in a populated areas, about preventing another 9/11, about keeping our enemy on their heels & its about keeping the continental US as safe as possible.
 
Well the founding fathers agreed that any long term standing army becomes corrupt, so militias with people trained and ready to come to arms at a moments notice to serve in a military capacity either localy or nationaly was the goal. However in modern times much of our economicly superior position in the world relies on things the average person is better off not understanding.
Some of these things require a well trained, highly capable, powerful, standing military spread around the world. Whether or not you agree with it, our quality of life is directly tied to the job they do. Nevermind the deterent factor provided.
Our quality of life is directly involved with pro active manipulation of the world that upsets people/nations that have conflicting self interests which means we need a big scary military to protect us from them. Having a big scary military ready and willing to act actualy means we have to excercise our muscle far less often because of the deterent.
World politics are not as simple as 'right and wrong' and have often boiled down throughout history to who is living better at the expense of others. In the past it was lands conquered by force belonging to an empire, in modern times it is merely conquered economies put in debt to the services of those more powerful and thus manipulated to benefit the economy of the conquerer. This in turn means if you are a citizen of one of the conquering nations you enjoy more material wealth for less hours of labor per day. You can go to work for 8 hours a day, earn enough to have a home, kids, good nutrition, health care and benefits, retirement, multiple vehicles (in a household) and even extra for multiple toys like guns. While those same 8 hours if your country was not economicly conquering would give you much less.
 
First, I'm not certain I understand what you're getting at with, "If our goal is to be able to freely own any firearm, why should we support a military effort in another country?", but, it has been a long day and I'm about half through a sixer of silver bullets, so maybe its just me.

However, concerning nuclear weapons and the threat from abroad, as stated already, no individual state has the capacity to deter, much less defend against nations intent on conquest. The policy of large-scale deterrence, served to keep an uneasy peace between and eventually defeat the USSR. This same deterrence keeps nations like China and North Korea at bay and may even have an effect on terrorist nations like Iran and Syria. The individual psychos or terrorist organizations remain unaffected because they either are unafraid of destruction or difficult to locate.

As food for thought, I'll pose the following two scenarios:

1. China has approx: 50 large and medium landing ships, dozens of small landing craft, 10-12000 PLAN Marine forces and the largest standing army in the world.
North Korea has much less of an amphibious assault capability but retains landing craft, paratroopers, and an army of over 300,000.

Either of these nations would roll right over the defense capabilities of say, Georgia, Oregon , or even several of the seaboard states combined. Especially when backed up by SLBM's or theater tactical nukes.

2. The most survivable leg of the nations strategic "triad" is the Trident class of ballistic missile submarines. At an approx cost of 400 Million each not including upkeep and the cost of the missiles themselves, these ships are well beyond the means of even a group of states. And If the states have to "group" together to afford something, then thats a "federal" government isn't it?
 
Given our armed population, our territory can't really be controlled by a foreign invader (except for large cities in the daytime). But we have a military mainly to protect American interests abroad, to exert influence globally, and to fight potential threats during their formative stages. Our gargantuan and globally-deployed military is kind of an anomaly for anything other than an empire. Our forces are garrisoned around the world but in nations that we don't control politically. Basically, we won WWII and ended up with large numbers of servicemen stationed abroad; we kept them there and elsewhere throughout the Cold War; and now they remain because during that time we and the rest of the world created this giant, global economy that can only work if there's international stability. And America has taken on the task of maintaining that stability. We've got the biggest economy and we safeguard it partially by fighting or suppressing badguys who try to make trouble.
 
Do we need a military? Absolutely.

Does that mean we should get in line and support anything and everything that a politician does with the military? Does it mean that we should mystically adore the military and not judge it when its members screw up?

No. And not just "no" but "Hell, No!"
 
Our nation learned early on that projecting power beyond our borders was necessary when it had to deal with the Barbary pirates in Northern Africa.

If such a defense plan existed, what would we do if some nation decided to sends its frigate out and take our all of our commercial shipping and knock out out off shore oil platforms? No state could afford the navy to patrol and protect our commerce. The current US Navy protects commerce on the oceans across much of the world.
 
Standing armies suck

WE don't need them, if our constitution was something other then high grade ass wipe.
If we had the choice of who we hired or fired, if we did not have to support federal mandated health care and schools.
If we had some armed citizens on 911 would the attack been succesfull?
VIASA the national airline of Venesuala (sp) had armed crews, never high jacked to Cuba. Over flew Cuba to Miami for years.
If we had freedom of religion and really had the freedom of the 2nd Ammendment would WACO or Ruby Ridge have occured?

Look at other nations such as Brasil, Norway, Netherland, Switzerland and evern Costa Rica. They don't have global armies and worry about keeping our sea lanes free.
We don't have to project power globaly for trade. Does China rule the sea to keep there goods arriving to Wallmart. NO.
Are foreign policy is ate up. Our freedom is a myth.
Over twenty years in the US Army with my eyes open.
 
What do you think? I'm not trying to belittle anyone who has served in the military, they are certainly brave, but should we support them?

We should absolutely support out troups in the efforts to keep us safe. As someone that has served in the military (Army Infantry) let me say that it our ability to take the fight to our enemies abroad that keep us from having to fight them here on American soil. I know that there are many out there that believe we should pull our troops out of their foreign posts and reside ourselves to just defending our borders against assault. That is perhaps stupidest idea that I have ever heard.
 
I wish some could get off they're politically correct asses so our military can getter done :confused: have'nt we learned yet ? Radical Islam will not go away, it is a cancer that MUST be cut out from civilization . If we do'nt there will Be hell to pay .
 
Aside from not really understanding the original post insofar as what firearms ownership had to do with it, yes, we should support the military. Not blindy though, blind nationalism was of course the essential element of nazism and many other oppressive regimes.
I understand completely the Founding Fathers warning against standing armies. That said, in today's world it just does not work. I wish it did, I want to be a privateer captain of a Burke class destroyer. :D It does not work mainly because we are essentially at a constant state of low level conflict usually manifested diplomatically. Showing the flag is the main contribution the military makes to this diplomatic war effort. Why show the flag? Because pulling up our welcome mat, hiding within our borders, and saying screw the world cannot work in today's mobile society. Well it can work, but there are a bunch of ordinary North Koreans not so happy with that plan.

America will be interconnected with the world no matter what. No way around it. The world is a fickle stage. I often hear (from leftist family members) that the U.S. is just a big international bully. Huh? We are a superpower and I hope we stay that way. I don't want to convert the rest of the world to democracy, I just understand that nature abhors a vacumn. There will be a superpower in the world. I see zero chance of the whole world getting along in some egalitarian collective manner and singing happy songs in the halls of the U.N(my #1 JDAM target BTW if Bush would just ask for my list). Right now, I figure better us than the alternative. What we do in the Horn of Africa, Iraq, Malaysia, Korea, Germany, South America fufills an essential function of keeping our country safe. Further, we spread a lot of goodwill and international stability. Little things, like stopping pirates(yes we still have pirates) from taking cargo engenders a lot of goodwill with nations unable to stop it themselves. The military does countless things to diplomatically advance our cause abroad. I cannot think of a more benign superpower ever.
 
The idea that the founding fathers disdained a standing army is romantic, but it isn't entirely true. Some of the founders, of course, truly did not want one. But, others thought they might be necessary, and accepted them because they believed the citizens would retain military arms to be able to defend themselves against the army should it become corrupt.
The world is now a very different place than it was when the founders debated and ratified the Constitution. Previous posters have correctly pointed out that isolationism has proven historically fallacious; it didn't prevent the rise of Nazism and if we'd sat out WW2, God knows the results. Nazism might still have been defeated, but what about a WW2 victorious Soviet Union? Who would have won the Cold War -- or, would there even have been one?
I agree with the militia concept, but we need to face it; they can't do it by themselves. Before the Revolutionary War, militias often accompanied the Redcoats in fighting of Indian attacks. The Redcoats were tolerant of them; but when the "SHTF" it was usually the militia guys who suddenly recalled they had forgotten to buy their wifey a birthday present, or had forgotten an appointment for a root canal, and ran away. Of course, once the Revolutionary War started, these guys had to actually learn to fight -- there'd be no one to shoot the Redcoats if they ran this time! In some cases, they did OKAY; along New York's Hudson River repeated militia attacks did do very well against the Redcoats ... but a lot of other places, they were undependable at best.
Remember, though, even Washington's Continental Army got their collective butts kicked out of NYC and the Hudson, and didn't achieve a victory until Trenton.
Machiavelli also was a proponent of a militia system. In his concept a few top officers and men would be constant members, train year round, and maintain and keep equipment. These people would always maintain the knowledge and experience of the warrior. During time of war the militia would be expanded to full size by enlisting the townsmen of the principality. These would be farmers and other civilians who would have some knowledge of things military and some experience with weapons.
Keeping an army trained up today takes a lot, with all the sophisticated weapons we have. At certain times in our history we have given this short shrift. But overall we've done mediocre to pretty good in recent decades.
Should we trust the military? Yes, absolutly we should and we should support them. In some ways I think you have conflated very different ideas. Our gun rights are certainly in danger, but what is the source?
Politicians such as Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, Drane Feinstein, et al. Where do these get their power from? They were elected -- which brings me to another source of danger to our gun rights.
Our own fellow countrymen, who are either ignorant, ill-educated, or have a deliberate thought out agenda intending to disarm us.
I think we shouldn't conflate these issues. Keep your eye on the target, identify the problem, and keep your eyes clean so as not to be distracted by conflationary pettifoggery.
That's my two cents ...
 
We should always support the military.
What we shouldn't do is support the government...the political types who send our troops in harm's way.

I'm a Vietnam vet (US Navy 1969-1977), so it's not like I'm a flower child mentality.
However, if this country is going to send men and women out to fight...if the can't declare war...they've no business sending the troops out for more then a short period (IMHO, not to exceed 90 dys)
 
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