Why so many makers use AUS-8 instead of 440C?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Some Use Both

I have one knife that uses both 440C and AUS-8, Benchmade's [post=5809343]Steigerwalt 12700 - NRA Outdoors[/post].

It seems to me that if there were no practical difference, they wouldn't use one steel for the main blade and a different steel for the others.

 
So what are the Mora Trifelx blades made of? And the laminated no 1? I am under the impression the Mora is using good steel (Mora brand, Frosts, etc).
 
No Data

I've never seen a breakdown of the Triflex steel makeup.

My understanding is that Triflex is a layered and differentially heat-treated carbon steel.

I have some "Laminated" Mora knives, but the steel has always seemed like stainless to me.

Kind of on a par with "Sandvik" steel, I would guess.

I've never had any issue with the Scandinavian steels. Everything I have in those steels gets sharp, holds an edge, resharpens easily.

Still, I don't know the formulation and don't have an intelligent guess.

 
Thanks A.G.

I am completely ignorant of steel and hope to learn. I am on a Mora kick right now and they seem to take a much better edge than many of my Gerbers or other knives for that matter. I don't own any expensive knives like Randalls or anything like that.

I have the big LMF and a number of Gerber items...my pervious "brand" kick. I assume that the Chinese Gerbers are those that do not say Portland OR on them? Or is there another way to tell?
 
"I am completely ignorant of steel and hope to learn. I am on a Mora kick right now and they seem to take a much better edge than many of my Gerbers or other knives for that matter. I don't own any expensive knives like Randalls or anything like that.

I have the big LMF and a number of Gerber items...my pervious "brand" kick. I assume that the Chinese Gerbers are those that do not say Portland OR on them? Or is there another way to tell? "



Many years ago, I was on the custom knife kick. I was a knife snob. I had two Randallls, a model 14, and a model 15. They were two of the most over rated knives I ever had. When I finally got over the knife thing and sold off the high end stuff, I took to using a number 1 laminated Mora. Best darn sheath knife I ever had. I sold off my Randalls, Hedrickson's, Ralph Bone's, Ruanna's, Fowler's, Bagwell's, and all the rest of the high end customs. For 20 years now I've used a Frost's Mora number 1 and a 12 inch Ontario machete as my heavy duty outdoor knives, and they have done everything my edc pocket knife wasn't up to. I know the Ontario is simple 1095 carbon steel. The Mora is soft carbon steel sandwiching a harder tempered carbon steel. I've used the living heck out of it, and it's great.

I used a Gerber LST for close to 20 years in a machine shop as my edc at work. I finally wore it out. Some months ago I bought another one, and it's still marked Portland Or. on the tang. So far it's proven to be just as tough and reliable as my original LST. The Gator series is still marked Portland Or. from what I can see in stores. I have a Gator clip point, and it's a good knife. I just don't carry it a lot because of the size. But it does go fishing, and camping, and used for camp chores and cleaning fish and small game. It holds a very nice edge for a good reasonable amount of time. Most of all, it sharpens up fairly easy with the cut down Eze-lap model L I keep in my wallet. It's easily as good a blade that was on my Randall that I used for much the same work. Did I mention I really love my LST? I use the LST and the Gator as my dirty deeds knife. Something I'm not afraid to get grungy and clean it by swishing it around in the creek. Or lake, or ocean. Since I live in Chesapeake bay country, and do spend time on the water in a variety of boats, I do like a stainless steel in my edc pocket knife.

I think people make too much noise over steel. I've used knives costing hundreds of dollars, (1970's and 80's dollars) and knives costing 10 dollars like Mora's and Victorinox bantam model SAKs. To be honest, I like the lower end knives better. Sooner or later your going to have to sharpen that knife. Think about it. I know I'd rather have a knife that when I finish field dressing that buck I have to take a few minutes, and touch up my knife on the little diamond hone in my wallet vs a knife that will do 5 deer, but is a b---h to sharpen. I like that in just a few minutes, I can have my pocket knife razor sharp again. I had a D2 Queen sodbuster, and it was a bear to sharpen when it did finally go dull. I gave it away. Just got tired of messing with it. I have done an entire deer with my LST, and it was still pretty good at the end. It touched right up in a couple of minutes when I was done.

The obsessive knife nut is too far out there. Just remember one thing; once upon a time, mountain men blazed a trail through the howling wilderness with Russell's Green river knives that were basically a large carbon steel kitchen butcher knife. I doubt they were as good as what is being produced today in large factories with computer controlled tempering ovens and other high tech manufacturing that was not available back then. Not to mention that even the common steels like 440B and AUS8, are probably better than many people had in the 1800's, when a knife really was used for keeping you alive.

Knife nuts don't really NEED the highest end super steel. Most of the time they are opening mail at the office, slicing open a plastic blister pack that defies tooth and nail, or maybe slicing an apple. Few people are skinning a buffalo, fighting hostile 'injuns, engaging in clandestine Jack Bauer operations. They just want the super steels. Like an automobile enthusiast really does not NEED that Porsche for commuting to the office. He has the Porsche because he likes and wants the Porsche. In the real light of day, a Toyota Corolla would get him to the office just as good, if not maybe even better in the long run. It just would not have the prestige and where-with-all.

Heck, man got by very well for a very long time with flaked obsidian and later, bronze. Steel, even middle of the road stuff, is gravy on the potatoes. :D
 
Knives are about passion. So forget trying to figuring it out. Now about steels. The difference in knives has less to do with the cost and material. It has everything to do with the bladesmith or knifemaker. Randall Knives has used 440C for years, with great Success. While Rat Cutlery make a incredible knife out of 1095. I would any day trust my life to either knife.
 
I have 4 of the Spyderco mules. All of them in different steels, and you can tell a difference in how they cut, sharpen, and hold an edge.

My current preference is:

M4
ZDP189
52100
S90V
 
This is a guess, but might it be that AUS-8 having a lower carbon content is more forgiving a material, and thus, less expensive to use in production?

I have no personal experience with stainless materials, but in carbon steels higher carbon content usually means the material is more sensitive about the way it is being handled. For example, 0.8% carbon steel is good material for a beginner because it is not that sensitive to being over heated, or being beaten when it is cold. On the other hand carbon steels with carbon content of 1%+ often develop fractures if they are being molded in wrong temperatures.

Carl Levitian

You said:
I doubt they were as good as what is being produced today in large factories with computer controlled tempering ovens and other high tech manufacturing that was not available back then. Not to mention that even the common steels like 440B and AUS8, are probably better than many people had in the 1800's, when a knife really was used for keeping you alive.

This is actually not correct. I have no doubt modern technology could potentially produce absolutely stunning stuff, but too often they have to make compromises to lower the production time/cost.

Take it from a person who uses various cutting implements every day professionally - the old ones are typically much much better. That is why most carpenters are always rummaging through flea markets and such, to find old Sheffield blades, for example.

Also, keep in mind that when a blade smith beats the blade into the required form, he also changes the structure of the steel in a beneficial way. This is something you do not usually get on a blade that is mass produced. They have been cut into a basic shape and forged with a single blow.

Furthermore, when I order a "custom" blade, of any type, I specify what kind of properties I want, and that includes heat treatment. If I do not get what I want, I ask the blade smith to correct the situation.
 
I have just seen this part of forum for the first time (meaning knives) while trying to find a folder knife. Have been on a few other forums, never thought that there would be a knife forum area, even though now it makes sense. I just bought two different folders, and will ask what is thought about them even though I am going to catch hell and a lot of laughs on what I just did buy, but still want to know what you in the know can tell me about what I did right (if anything) and what is wrong (after reading a bit of this forum will be volumes for me), but still want to know what the real deal is. And thanks in advance for any information, laughing, busting me, or just general advice on what I have done. One thing, I wanted a pocket clip knife that would work in the LA county and a tanto knife for camping that might be longer than the LA laws allow. One that I bought is Kershaw Knife Storm 1470ST Ken Onion 1470 ST and the other is Winchester 22-41437 Ranger Enclose Tanto Knife, Serrated Edge. I am not thinking to use either one as a duty knife, just a handy item. Thanks.
 
Jim's right in that it is about the money.

But instead of "cheaper", it's all about the profit.

Cheaper doesn't always equate to more profit because sometimes the marketing of a knife using a more expensive steel makes for even more profit.
 
I know this thread is old but here's the skinny. 440c is overproduced and easily obtainable. AUS-8 is indeed a softer metal but the machining cost has nothing to do with it's use. AUS-8 is produced for the end user. Being a softer metal it is excellent for people who are extra hard on knives. If you break the tip or notch the edge you can reshape the blade with nothing more than a sharpener. It is incredibly easy to return an AUS-8 edge to razor sharpness even after gross abuse. Try that with 440c and you'll understand what the term "exercise in futility" means. As far as value and "bang for buck" learn to ID metals and use a grinder. I can't tell you how many of my best knives I made on a grinder out of "scrap". As faras 440c goes I've handled a lot of metal types, I don't care for 440c so much. I once heard a very wise knifesmith say "there are no bad metals, just bad uses". 440c will indeed hold an edge longer than AUS-8, but once it's dead that's the end of your knife. Also, blade geometery counts for a lot.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top