Why University Cops & Administrators Don't Want CC on Campus

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I would have killed him, but then I'd be going to prison.

No, you won't. You might be locked up, but then, the entire country will be on your side. Remember NRA, GOA, Grassroots, etc........ These things don't exist for no reason.
We should start educating sheeple about defense. When a maniac comes into a classroom and points a gun about, you don't just sit there.

When people just sit there and wait, we already know what is going to happen. Anybody ever heard of Aushwitz-Birkenau, Buchenwald and Ravensbruuck?
 
high road or not, there is a very convenient pocket in all of my backpacks that holds a USP 40 very well, and if I were of the mind to protect myself and my fellow students/teachers from a homicidal individual, that pocket is exactly where it may be. and I certainly don't like to sit closest to the front, middle of the room is my area. If I were in that situation I would almost certainly be in jail for a justifiable (but not on that real estate) homicide or for taking the "security" officer hostage. get the **** on the ground! might have been bellowed, or maybe the steel/synthetic device would have bellowed on its own, but I certainly would have done whatever was in my power to make sure the occupants of my classroom made it through the incident unharmed, whatever happens to the attacker is his own responsibility.

I agree that everyone involved should lose their jobs and the ability to work in education, law enforcement, or security ever again. invalidate their degrees and their training, bust them back to burger flippers, and let the dumb bast**** know they are lucky to be alive. see how many idiot administrators stage 'security tests' after that.

sorry bout the hostile post. it just struck really close to home for me.
 
First of all, thats illegal.

Second of all, what... the... hell...

Third, if I had been in that class I would have probably killed that guy. Dead. Then where would I be?

Man, I hope this is a joke.
 
What do you say to something like this?

Idiots...

Remember how the passengers on flight 93 got ballsy after knowing that the other hijacked planes got turned into missiles?

Same deal I think...different application.

So many murderers coming into schools these days and just shooting random people with reckless abandon.
Taking your life into your own hands by busting into a classroom and pulling a stunt like this. There should be at least a handful of students in each room who have decided to not just be herded sheep should they encounter an assailant in school.

Fellow is lucky he's not wearing a 40 pound Virco desk for a hat right now.
 
Right after the NIU shooting, I had a heated debate on this site about how shooter drills would be a bad idea. I remember explaining that the people administering the drills would be complete morons and that the drills would only make kids more afraid of guns. (Search my history if you're motivated.)

Well, here we are. I just didn't think it would be so soon.
 
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CONSPIRACY to commit Assault with a deadly weapon, and isn't this also technically, hostage taking? These morons need to spend some time in prison on felony charges. Firing? Are you serious? Time to spend some quality time with BUBBA.
 
Rachen queried:
Wheelgunslinger, I didn't really understand you. Please clarify.

Sure.
Students like yourself are very much in the minority, when you consider the general population of students.
The bulk of the student body is tuned out from everything but their iPod and their laptop screen. And, most lack any martial training at all, aside from maybe some rape defense training for the girls.
Most classrooms don't have a Rachen in them to be a sheepdog. Combine that with liberal career academics teaching the class and you have a pretty bad place for someone to be should they want to live through the encounter and be proactive.
So, Rachen, I just meant that people like yourself who are committed to surviving proactively are very few in number.
 
CONSPIRACY to commit Assault with a deadly weapon, and isn't this also technically, hostage taking? These morons need to spend some time in prison on felony charges. Firing? Are you serious? Time to spend some quality time with BUBBA.
I'm pretty sure it would be false imprisonment here in NC (our laws are weird) since they weren't forcibly moved (kidnapping), but were prevented from leaving.
Maybe you could cook up some charge for consipiracy to commit an act of terrorism. hmmm... wonder if that would fall under a federal charge?
 
WOW.

Thats really all I can say.

WOW.

This "drill" was wrong on so many levels. Some people are taught to take action (instead of wringing their hands), if there had been some of those types of people in the class there would have been a lot of problems.

I don't care if this was a red gun or not. I would have had major problems had this happened in my class as I am red-green color blind.. All I would have seen was a guy with a gun holding a hostage.

This would have been best left as a table top exercise. I am trying to figure out what they were "testing". The response of the tactical team? (could have been done with everyone knowing guy/gun. Response of the PD (same), basically the only variable that could not be tested (with full disclosure) is the students panic.

Once again all I can say is WoW this was stupid.
 
What the hey!

I may not fully understand what went on with this drill because somethings are lost in translation but couldn't the Patriot Act be applied here against the college? If I missed the mark here someone enlighten me please. Confused!
 
many government employees (not just cops) are extreme control freaks. they think whatever they do is fine, no matter what, and its up to the sheep to live with it. after the fact they will claim some kind of potential benefit to the sheep, but that is a ruse.

private schools don't need police departments. its time to get them off public schools as well.
 
he would have gotten shot if it was in any of my classes.
what was the purpose of this exercise? to scare students ****less, probably resulting in many lawsuits and free counseling sessions paid for by school dime?

JUST READ THAT STUDENTS WERE SEARCHED AFTER THE EVENT!
***, can you say illegal search?
then again, if i was packing in that room,%
 
Holy crap. I'd be pissed. And if I had a child in that school they'd be coming home immediately.

I've taken several classes at the local community college. I was armed every single time. I was not breaking the law, I was however breaking the schools policy and I knew and was okay with the consequences of that.

I'd hate to imagine the outcome if a student in that class was doing the same.


ETA: I just want to add that I see that this happened in NC. I'm in VA and do not know the law on college carry in NC.
 
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Aside from the obvious stupidity of the entire process, I'll ask one devil's advocate question.

Would you really shoot the guy when you saw that it was a rubber red gun?
 
From the Salisbury Post:

ECSU's mock emergency drill scares some who were unaware of plan
ELIZABETH CITY (AP) — Elizabeth City State University is offering counseling to faculty and students after some became unknowing participants in an emergency response drill.

The News & Observer of Raleigh reported in Wednesday's editions that an armed man burst into a classroom Friday, threatening to kill students. The drill came eight days after a gunman killed five people and himself in a classroom at Northern Illinois University.

Anthony Brown, vice chancellor of student affairs, said ECSU was testing its response to such shootings. E-mail and text messages were sent five days before the drill, notifying students, staff and faculty, he said.

"The intent was not to frighten them but to test our system and also to test the response of the security that was on campus and the people that were notified," Brown said.

But not everyone got the word, including assistant professor Jingbin Wang, whose American foreign policy class was held hostage.

"I was prepared to die at that moment," Wang said Tuesday of the moment the gunman entered the room.

At 1:31 p.m. Friday, e-mail and text messages were sent, saying: "This is a test. ECSU is holding a test drill where an armed intruder will enter a room in Moore Hall and be detained by campus police."

The campus police officer who played the role of the intruder carried a red plastic model gun, the school said in a news release.

In a telephone interview Tuesday, Wang said the man came to the door and said he wanted to talk. "Suddenly the man pointed the gun at me," he said, adding that he didn't have time to consider whether the gun was real.

The seven students were lined up against the wall, and the intruder threatened to kill the one with the lowest grade point average. Wang said the man told them that he had been kicked out of school and that he needed a lung transplant.

After about 10 minutes, campus police ended the drill by subduing the man.

In April, 32 students at Virginia Tech were killed by student gunman Seung-Hui Cho. That shooting has led schools to examine their emergency plans and conduct safety drills.

For example, UNC-Greensboro held an active shooter exercise in January that was attended by law enforcement and university officials from around the state. But students were not on campus when the drill was held during winter break.

Ok, can anyone tell me why the officer stayed in character after seeing that the professor and students were visibly disturbed (which I can only assume they were). If the drill was to "test the system," what was the purpose of issuing death threats to the individual students?
 
Many people would be so freaked out by the actions of the police officer / evildoer that they would not note the red rubber nature of the gun. Remember how eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable? Some people might notice the color, but if they don't know much about guns, that might not mean much to them. Furthermore, those sitting toward and in the back likely would not see that the gun was made of rubber.
 
and another article:

Mock gunman terrifies students
Elizabeth City State drill sours

Jerry Allegood, Staff Writer
An armed man who burst into a classroom at Elizabeth City State University was role-playing in an emergency response drill, but neither the students nor assistant professor Jingbin Wang knew that.
"I was prepared to die at that moment," Wang said Tuesday.

The Friday drill, in which a mock gunman threatened panicked students in the American foreign policy class with death, prompted university officials to apologize this week to Wang and offer counseling to faculty and students.

Anthony Brown, vice chancellor for student affairs, said the university was testing its response to shootings of the sort that have shaken campuses around the country. "The intent was not to frighten them but to test our system and also to test the response of the security that was on campus and the people that were notified," Brown said.

The drill was conducted just eight days after a gunman stormed a Northern Illinois University classroom, killing five people before he took his own life. Brown said students, staff and faculty were notified five days in advance that a drill would take place. The word went out via e-mail and text messages. Not everyone got the word.

At 1:31 p.m. Friday, e-mail and text messages kicked off the drill with the announcement: "This is a test. ECSU is holding a test drill where an armed intruder will enter a room in Moore Hall and be detained by campus police."

The mock intruder, a campus police officer, carried a red plastic model gun, according to a university news release.

Wang, who teaches history and political science, said Tuesday in a telephone interview he was having a discussion in his foreign policy class when the man came to the door and said he wanted to talk with him.

"Suddenly the man pointed the gun at me," he said.

Wang said he did not know whether the gun was real. "I saw the gun but didn't have too much time to think about that," he said. "The man was serious."

Up against the wall

The intruder instructed Wang to close the door and then ordered the seven students to line up along the wall. Wang said the man told them that he had been kicked out of school and that he needed a lung transplant.

At one point, Wang said, the man threatened to kill the student who had the lowest grade point average. Wang offered to let him sit in his class, he said, but the man rejected attempts at negotiation.

Wang said some students thought the gun was fake, but they were not sure. "I was the guy who was feeling the gun on my back," he said.

After about 10 minutes, the class heard people talking outside the door, and campus police rushed in and subdued the man. "Even after this was over, nobody explained it," Wang said.

He said colleagues told him that students in another classroom blocked a door with a table and chair -- just as students did in Norris Hall at Virginia Tech in April, when 32 students were killed by student gunman Seung-Hui Cho.

During ECSU's drill, some students sent text messages to their parents, Wang said. Another staffer told Wang that students said they were prepared to jump out of a window.

The Virginia Tech shooting has led universities across the United States to re-evaluate safety and implement new procedures for identifying troubled students and notifying people in the event of an emergency. Many campuses have conducted safety drills. In January, UNC-Greensboro held an active shooter exercise that was attended by law enforcement and university officials from around the state. But that drill was planned for winter break, when students were not on campus.

'Factor in the safety'

Will Morehead of EnviroSafe Inc., a private company in Mebane that specializes in planning and evaluating emergency response, said he could not speak in detail about the ECSU drill without knowing details of how it was carried out. But he said there should be safeguards in place to protect participants.

"The realism needs to be there, but you need to factor in the safety," he said.

John Pierce of Bristol, Va., a spokesman for a pro-gun Internet group called OpenCarry.org, said the university's drill was poorly planned and dangerous. He said people in the class could have been killed or injured trying to escape or could have harmed the role player.

He called for the state to make it legal for individuals to carry firearms for self-defense. He said North Carolina is one of 16 states that make it a crime for people to carry firearms on campuses.

University Chancellor Willie J. Gilchrist said in a prepared statement that the drill was a learning experience. He said the university needed to increase the usual scope of scenarios, which generally involve hurricanes, tropical storms and evacuations.

"Unfortunately we learned lessons from frightened students that result when live scenarios are carried out," he said in a news release. "However, we want our campus to be ready in case of such an event."
 
Aside from the obvious stupidity of the entire process, I'll ask one devil's advocate question. Would you really shoot the guy when you saw that it was a rubber red gun?

jcoiii
I can't answer for others but I can tell you this about myself. Unless someone was actively shooting in my direction I would never just "open fire". However I would not assume that just because a "gun" is red that there was no threat.

Firstly, I would operate on the assumption that someone nutz enough to try something with a fake gun is probably nutz enough to do just about anything.

Secondly, somewhere around here I posted a long list of "disguised weapons" (search isn't helping me find them) and amongst that list was repainting a real weapon to look like a toy. One simply can NOT assume.

Thirdly, as Bloodedsky mentioned, in the stress of the moment the vast majority of folks would probably not notice that it was a fake gun.

So not only was this behavior criminally stupid (like yelling FIRE in a theater), it also did a great job of illustrating how ineffective the campus police really were/are in this sort of a scenario. Haven't these idiots ever heard of the "war of the worlds" radio broadcast?

Unless they were trolling for folks doing CCW against school policy and the law... which would be a whole 'nother realm of stupid.
 
LOTS of students across the country are arming themselves DESPITE the idiotic school policies ... and Elizabeth State is in North Carolina, so the likelihood of armed students is probably greater there than a lot of parts of the country.

I read this early this morning and thought the same thing. He is VERY lucky someone wasn't illegally carrying and decided to fire. Sadly, this will go nowhere - nobody will get fired, no real apologies will be made, and the stupid will continue to rain on that campus. It's hard to find a more stupid and defiant group than those associated with the UNC school systems here.



Many people would be so freaked out by the actions of the police officer / evildoer that they would not note the red rubber nature of the gun.
It could have been that evil duracoat CNN told me about.
 
Imagine the Marine fresh from his 3rd tour in the sand box sitting in that class utilizing his college benefits. What do you suppose he might have done?

My gawrd the level of braindead-ness at these institutes of higher learning will never cease to amaze me.
 
It was a red plastic training pistol, you'd have a hard time justifying that homicide anywhere in this country.

What should have happened was them walking into class and saying, this is a drill, we're testing the response force, so play along, this gun is a fake.
 
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