WI: Editorial: Guns and political muscle

[xenophon]

More anti BS, just makes me want to go out and buy more guns and get more friends hooked when I read pure BS like this...among other things, like voting out anti legislators and Governors

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Editorial: Guns and political muscle
From the Journal Sentinel
Last Updated: Nov. 13, 2003

The gun lobby's political muscle helps to explain the passage of a concealed-carry bill by the Wisconsin Legislature despite the lack of popular support for the measure. For opponents of the proposal, the lesson is that they must bulk up, too.

The Republican-controlled Legislature has rushed this misguided bill to Democratic Gov. Jim Doyle, as if arming residents were a matter of great state urgency. Doyle's expected veto deserves to be upheld. Notably, the state's top crime fighters (police chiefs, sheriffs, district attorneys) widely oppose the bill out of fear it would make the streets more dangerous. Also, the proposal underfinances duties it requires of local officials, already strapped for funds.

In general, according to poll data, Americans seem either satisfied with existing gun regulations or in favor of somewhat tighter restrictions. For example, considerable majorities favor the licensing of handgun owners and background checks on buyers of firearms at gun shows.

The trouble is, the minority makes up in passion, organization and money what it lacks in numbers. Hence, state and national lawmakers keep bottled up the sensible and popular idea of stopping criminals from using gun shows to skirt background checks.

The challenge for advocates of reasonable gun rules is to develop political muscle, too. The task now in Wisconsin is at least to protect from retribution those lawmakers who voted against repealing the state's 133-year ban on carrying concealed weapons. After all, one reason legislators kowtow to the foes of gun control is to avoid punishment, which shows up during campaign season in the form of attack ads or direct donations to challengers. Believers in the ban must learn to act as a counterforce - not just at the ballot box, but also through political contributions.

Right now, thanks to the gun lobby's influence, the Wisconsin Legislature is skewed against sensible gun laws; the people, on the other hand, favor them. Backers of rational rules for firearms, as spokesmen both for the majority and for wise public policy, must learn to increase their political influence.


From the Nov. 14, 2003 editions of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel

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"The trouble is, the minority makes up in passion, organization and money what it lacks in numbers."

So we're in the minority here in WI? Really? Is that why some anti Democrats got voted out last session? Is that why supporters for licensed CCW showed up to the hearing in Madison back in September, outnumbering the anti's by a factor of 4 to 1? I'm sorry, but those for the bill follow LOGIC and anti's like this article's author think 2+2=5 and will show you skewed facts and polls to back up that claim. Sheep in wolves clothing I tell ya. When this CCW bill passes in WI, you can take those forked tongues and shove it back into Madison.

x

 

[Monkeyleg]

What took them so long to publish this?

 

[cobb]

Nothing original, they got it from a Minnesota paper.

I have no idea where Minnesota got it, probabley a Michigan newspaper.

 

[AJ Dual]

The Journal Sentinel knows that several of their pet liberals are already weak over a bitter state tax-freeze fight that played itself out late this summer. They're afraid the CCW fight will make their chosen champions prospects even worse.

The Journal Sentinel Editorial staff sees themselves in a no-win situation, their elitist minds can't fathom having CCW in WI, and conversely, if they get their immediate wish and it fails to pass, it will be another nail in the coffin of several state senators in the '04 elections, weakening the Democratic minority even further, and making Doyle completely irrelevant as governor, if not fueling the undercurrent of recall sentiment towards him to some real momentum.

For those not local to WI, Milwaukee had a recall of the county executive and a large portion of the county board that in it's own way was almost as earth shaking as what happened in California. Despite the lack of national media, WI is perhaps the most recall-happy state right now. And while a big-time anti and a liberal, Doyle has few true friends on the Democrat side of the aisle in the statehouse. During his ever-annoying tenure as state AG, he took little time to make any friends.

Either way, the Journal Sentinel editors have to face the horror of us mere peons with gun permits, or if CCW fails, it's fuel ffor grass roots gun owners like the WCCA to get the revenge vote out, and national money from the NRA weakening several key state senators that currently allow the liberals to hang on to what little they have left in state government.

It's also inevitable we'll have CCW in WI, as it's always easier to get your base energized about getting something they want, than it is to get the anti-gun base energized to support the continued lack of something.

They're screwed, it's just a matter of the method, if it's now through the pro-gun example of successfull CCW, or later through next year’s elections. They know this, and the editorial is thinly veiled whining. Perhaps it's just me, but I've detected a defeatist undercurrent in all of the recent anti-CCW editorials in the Journal Sentinel. I hope it's based on some reliable insider info...

 

[7.62FullMetalJacket]

The Journal Sentinel is in Milwaukee?

 

[Monkeyleg]

7.62FullMetalJacket: "The Journal Sentinel is in Milwaukee?"

Yup. Just like Teasdale Junction is in Utah.

It's looking more and more like we should able to hold the votes for an override in the senate. That's not a given, but one state Democrat senator whom I thought might flip-flop on the veto override did something that signals to me that he's going to stay with his original vote in favor of CCW.

Right now it looks like the real battle is going to be in the assembly, as Doyle tries to hammer away at the seven Democrats who voted for the bill. He already got one Democrat who voted for the bill last year (and for a bill that was less restrictive than the one we have now) to change his mind. There are charges of pay-for-votes flying, which has now lead to the threat of a lawsuit. If any of this gets in the press, it's going to make Doyle look really, really bad.

I hope everyone is girding for a tough fight. It's going to come down to just one or two votes either way.

 

[7.62FullMetalJacket]

Well, I grew up in the non-Milwaukee part of WI. Which is most of it. If I remember, Milwaukee is big city liberal, so it follows that the paper has that theme.

What does Hoard's Dairyman say about CCW?

No seriously, most of the people I knew would support the CCW.

 

[artjs]

Per a conversation with a local sheriff, Gov. Doyle has 'invited' any sheriff that wants to come to Madison Tuesday to watch him SIGN the VETO for DDW/PPA/SB214 !!!!!!

There is our answer on what he plans to do!! :banghead:


I've already called, emailed and hand written letters and requests to either not veto or else not sign the bill to allow it to become law.

If you already haven't done it, start the phone calls to your Reps and Senators to override the veto

Art

 

[Standing Wolf]

...considerable majorities favor the licensing of handgun owners and background checks on buyers of firearms at gun shows.

Goebbels would be proud of the way those presstitutes hammer home that lie so consistently.

 

[7.62FullMetalJacket]

That is ripe. Most of the news media has become the Ministry of Truth and Virtue.

 

[Pilgrim]

Per a conversation with a local sheriff, Gov. Doyle has 'invited' any sheriff that wants to come to Madison Tuesday to watch him SIGN the VETO for DDW/PPA/SB214 !!!!!!

Put the pressure on the sheriffs not to attend.

Pilgrim

 

[CommonSense]

I don’t think anyone was waiting to see what he would do. He was vague at first. I’m guessing he was waiting on the polls and how the representatives of his party would vote. Calling his office is a good idea – though probably a little too late. But it never hurts to try.

 

[Monkeyleg]

CommonSense, I have no idea of how long you've lived in Wisconsin. From the earliest days of his political career, Jim Doyle has been an extreme anti-gunner. He's advocated anti-gun laws that even Maryland or California would envy.

The problem is that, all through this career, he's been able to dupe the union guys into thinking he's for the "rights of sportsmen and hunters." And they've lapped it up like free beer.

Back in 1990, groups who knew the real Jim Doyle tried to alert gunowners to his record. Alerts ignored.

Back in 2002, we laid out his twelve-year history of gun-ban proposals, ammunition bans, caliber bans, and every other ridiculous ban that he had proposed during his tenure as AG.

He sent a couple of mailers to union members with a photo of him dressed up like a hunter, and they were satisfied.

Someday--and, according to the NRA, that day may come soon--hunters are going to find themselves faced with a bill that only adversely affects hunters.

And I'm going to watch them twist in the wind. Hell, I may even learn how to knit so I can amuse myself during the beheadings.

 

[CommonSense]

Monkeyleg: I wasn’t stating that I didn’t know his position prior to being elected. But you have to admit he was vague at first and testing the waters once he was elected. And I still believe he was waiting to see what his political party had to say once he became Governor. As we have talked about before, the heck with the people! Where does my party stand?

 

[Monkeyleg]

CommonSense, Jim Doyle's positions on guns were well-known to anyone who paid attention to gun politics in 1990. Even before I became immersed in pro-gun politics, in 1990 I posted flyers warning gunowners about Jim Doyle.

He was never--not ever--"testing the waters" on gun issues during his gubernatorial bid. He was trying to hide his record. His shamelessness will become something of a legend.

The Wisconsin Pro-Gun Movement had a website that I'd created for them that had pages upon pages upon pages of Doyle's proposals to ban this or that gun. He'd said that the shotgun was the choice of criminals for killing, and called for bans on certain barrel lengths and models--they were too long; he called the small handguns the choice of criminals for killing, and proposed bans on certain hanguns that were too short; he called for bans on handguns altogether; he called for ammunition bans; he called for registration, licensing, and any other gun-ban scheme concocted by even the looniest of the loony left.

Your joke about party loyalty is especially poignant here, because Doyle has driven a wedge between himself and the pro-gun Democrats from the outlying areas of the state. Doyle has tossed every Democrat who's been a supporter of gun rights to the political winds, knowing that some or many of them may be defeated next year if the CCW bill doesn't pass.

Doyle doesn't care about them. Why do you think Senator Roger Breske broke with Doyle over a month ago? He told his fellow Democrats that Doyle doesn't give a rip about them, and that they'd better heed the calls of their gun-owning constituents. Roger Breske is no dummy.

If Doyle succeeds in badgering the pro-gun Democrats into voting against an override, the elections next year will be a really unfortunate bloodbath. Good senators like Breske, Meyer, and others will lose office, just because of Doyle's monumental ego.

I have to believe that all of them see Doyle's public approval ratings at under 40%, and they're wondering why they should sacrifice themselves on the alter of an egomaniac who cares not one whit about their futures.

 

[jdege]

In general, according to poll data, Americans seem either satisfied with existing gun regulations or in favor of somewhat
tighter restrictions.

First, they commission intentionally-skewed polls. Then they believe them.

Me, I call that stupid.

When Wisconsin voted on their RKBA amendment, what were the numbers?

For opponents of the proposal, the lesson is that they must bulk up, too.

They've been trying for decades - throwing millions at attempts to construct at least the appearance of a grass-roots.

They've never managed.

The typical "grass-roots" anti-gun organization is some leftist foundation hanging out five-figure grands, a handful of paid organizers billing $150/hour, and a dozen retired school teachers with pink sweatshirts and teddy bears.